Going to Jesus

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Supplemental Reading Materials

We thought you would like to see how this book developed over the years that it took to write it, through the eyes of Pastor John’s correspondence with his congregation.  A few of the thoughts incorporated into the book came directly from these communications, and one can see in them some of the growth in understanding that took place during this time.  The questions and comments in some of these emails can be penetrating; they sometimes challenge Pastor John with difficult (if not downright impossible) questions.  The liberty of thought and great joy displayed in these letters make it obvious that “the flock of God” which meets at Pastor John’s house love Jesus and one another deeply and freely and that they are determined to know God and to serve Him acceptably, “in spirit and in truth.”

God Had a Son Before Mary Did Correspondence – Beginning in 2008. . .

7/8/08

We begin these emails with one from Amy Boveia, Pastor John’s secretary, to a friend, recording the day that he decided to write this book.

Hey there,

John just came downstairs with new work to do.  8-)  He is making a book out of his New Testament study he did this past Sunday on the Mystery.  He is going to call it “God had a Son Before Mary Did”.  So, will you let Donna know that he said we can start working on the cover!  8-)

Yay!  More on that when you get home.

Amy B.

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7/9/08

Dear Bro. John:

Thank you for the opportunity tonight to proofread the revised version of your New Testament (NT) notes, “In the Beginning, the Word was there”!  I became so overwhelmed with what I was reading; I felt another part of my heart being opened to receive riches that only God can reveal to man.  I’m not quite sure we were able to take in the fullness of what God served up to us this past Saturday night in the NT class.  And tonight, my heart is overwhelmed with what I read.  What absolute love! Throughout the ages, men have tried to separate God and His Son with their doctrines. Today, if it were possible, men would cause “a rift” and come between God and His precious Son.  But the closest those spirits of envy and pride can get to doing that is by causing a division between God and His people.  If they only knew the love that is shared and continues between the Father and His Son!  That love is inseparable, always has been and always will be.  And that is what God wants for us – to feel that same kind of pure, holy love that is shared on a daily basis between the Father and His Son.

This is such a powerful love story, Brother John.  After reading what you wrote on the mystery of Christ, I just had to read John 17 tonight.  It took on a whole new meaning.  Especially where Jesus said:

[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
[24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

I was hearing anew Jesus’ words, “for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world,” as feelings coming from the Son of God’s reflections of home and a relationship with His Father reminiscent of the glory and love that they shared.  The mystery of Christ!  That’s what makes Jesus’ prayer for the disciples in John 17 so sweet – he knew of this inseparable love because he was the Son of God before the world even existed!  And He wanted the disciples to know of this love, too.

I don’t think I can get all this out – it is filling up my heart!  Every word I read tonight of what you wrote just covered me with love.  It takes time to receive the fullness when God gives something so overwhelmingly full of love as this message, so I will just go and read again what the Lord has so beautifully given to you to give to us concerning the mystery of Christ.  Just knowing that God had a Son Before Mary had a son is pretty big!  Not many people in the world (if any) today understand that.  And without God, we would not understand it either.  It seems there is something bigger in the “mystery of Christ” that God wants us to take in.  A love maybe that we have not yet been able to grasp.  But He is so good and patient with His children.

One of the things that you wrote I just kept reading over and over because it was like pouring sweet warm oil all over my heart:

“God had to hide His Son from men many times to keep them from killing him while he was here among us.  The revelation of the New Testament was that God had His precious Son hidden with him in glory from before the foundation of the earth.”

Thank you, Bro. John, for feeding us this good food.  I am truly full tonight and humbled to be hidden with Christ in God.

Sandy

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7/9/08

John,

This is great!  Earlier on, when you explained that Brother Hxxxx taught that God did not not have a son before Jesus was born of Mary, and that the Son was just an idea in the mind of God until then, I didn’t understand where Brother Hxxxx was coming from.  I sat down to read my Bible one night before bed, and I opened it to Proverbs 8, not knowing what it said.  I did not see that chapter the way I can now, though, until reading it tonight with your explanation of his “life with the Father” and seeing that it was hidden in the Old testament (OT).

Then, the section on “The Mystery” really stood out to me.  This is really good.  In Ephesians 5, Paul spoke of the mystery, “which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men”, and then , in 3:9–10: “the mystery which has been hidden from the Aeons . . . so that the wisdom of God might be now made known through the called-out people.”

2:2 – God’s mystery – Christ.  Did you even know those verses said that???

It made me think of something that happened to me years ago.  I woke up one morning with the Spirit saying to me, “enigma”, very clearly.  I looked it up because I had never heard of the word (it wasn’t in my everyday vocabulary).  It meant “mystery”.  8-)

I am tickled . . . because I understand this mystery.  This is good.

Amy B

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7/9/08

Hey,

I woke up this morning, after reading your notes, and the first thing out of my mouth was, “God has revealed it to us (the mystery)!”  How important is that!?  What does that say about how He feels about us?  And, what does that say about how He feels about His Son?  I am still feasting on this.  This is very good.

Before I went to bed last night, I looked up scriptures on “hidden”.  I found this from 1Corinthians 2:7:

“But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory”.

Amy

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It is precious, Amy. May God help us to prove our love for the light of Jesus. (Isn’t it great to know that name!!)

jdc

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July 09, 2008

Hey,

These NT notes have left me flooded with thoughts.  I just saw this note on my desk from last week where I heard this while working,

“I loved you so much, I sent my Son. I did it for you.  That’s the love I have for you.” – God.

Now, reading that over, after seeing more clearly that God had a Son Before Mary did (8-)).......it means so much more.  God’s Son was what He sent to us to show how much He loves us.  To be close to us. To reveal Himself to us. The Son of God is the love of the Father, love coming through him to us; the mediator.  And, Him sending His Son, was great love and the Son coming was great love.  It’s a relationship.  And God wanted to share that love between Him and the Son with us.

Amy 8-)

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7/9/08

Hey!

Wow, this is good stuff from Amy!

You once told Bob something like that you knew evolution was wrong because it left out the love of God.  The idea that Jesus was just a thought in God’s mind leaves out God’s love for us.  It diminishes what God did for us in Christ. John 3:16-17 describes the manner in which God loved us.  He gave His Son and sent Him into this world.  How can you give and send a thought? What value would be in that?  The Father loved the Son and if the Son delighted to be in the presence of God did not God feel at least as happy as well?  God gave up having His Son delighting in His presence.  He loved His Son and He really did GIVE something of great value to Him, to us!

This doctrine of there being no Son of God before Jesus’ birth is being revealed to us as having no love of God in it.  “Jesus only” might have been a better place for them to stay rather than this new error.  For all its emphasis on the “most high God” it finds itself redefining the greatness of, and the love in, what God did for sinful man.  It takes away from both the Father and the Son.  It is a doctrine that will be loved by harsh, cold spirits.

Damien

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7/9/08

John

For men to say they worship “God” offends nobody. Few say that they do not.  “God” is an offense-less name for the most part.... by Himself.  For men to say they love “God” offends virtually nobody, because who shouldn’t?  To say that God was there in the beginning offends nobody; most know that something created all that is.

But...for men to worship the Son (Jesus is his name) as they worship the Father – many will despise you for that. For men to love the Son as they love the Father in truth (which can only be done by those who have received Spirit baptism), endurance will be needed to face the opposition to that truth (that the true love of God has some evidence). But I have noticed in recent times, that to say that the Son was CREATED by the Father – whoowie boy – that brings wrath!

And to go the next step now - to say that the Son was with the Father in creation, not as a “part” of God, or AS God himself, but as a beloved Son, created by and separate from His Father.  Well – I can’t see most of God’s people embracing that.  God sure has us out there!!

Gary

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I think you could safely say we have gone overboard . . . but then, if Peter had not gone overboard, he would never have walked on the water with Jesus!

jdc

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7/18/08

Hi John,

I want to thank you for coming to Louisville and teaching us the NT this past weekend.  I really enjoyed hearing about the mystery of God’s Son and how that the OT people of God did not even know that God had a Son.  It was hidden from them by God!  The more I learn about this great work and life that God has let me in on, the more honored and humble I feel. I owe him everything!  It is just by his mercy that any of us are here at this time in his creation.

Sometimes when I think of some of the silly things I have done and let rob me of the joy that he has put in my heart, I feel so ashamed and unworthy to even raise my head up toward him.  He has been so patient with me. And after all the things we have been through, and he has brought us past, I don’t ever want to miss him again. He is worthy of every bit of praise I can give him.

After seeing some of the things we saw this past weekend, I pray that I never ever hurt another person on this planet in my lifetime. I hate what having a wrong spirit can do to people you love and care for.  All it wants is to kill and to destroy you and the ones you love.  An evil spirit is a thief and a robber, and I hate it more every day.  I want that “heart of gold” that brother Darren sings about in his new song, and I know how to get it – by seeking God and keeping him first, while it is available.  The time is now while the door is open.

Thanks

Bro. Stuart

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7/18/08

Just so you won’t forget to include in your new book the wonderful point you made the other night when we were talking about the mystery of Christ – that point being that leaving the Son of God out of being with the Father in the beginning would lift Satan above the Son of God (not your words exactly, but to that effect).  That thought was SO good to my soul.  Even when our hearts do not quite understand all that God is putting before us, you can feel it stirring down deep that God has more!

I am looking forward to our next NT class!

Sandy :)

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John the baptizer said that Jesus was greater than he because “he was before I was”. If Satan was in heaven with God before God had a Son, as some teach, then who is greater, the Son or Satan?

jdc

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7/18/08

Pastor John,

I agree with Sandy – that was fabulous.

I was also thrilled at what you said in Louisville, and have been living on it this week it was so good.  Something like: “Jesus did not come to heal the sick. Jesus did not come to raise the dead. He did not come to die on a cross, and he did not come to raise from the dead.  He came TO DO THE WILL OF GOD, and it just happened that those things were part of doing the will of His Father.”

Heb. 10:7 “Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me), to do thy will, O God.”

We can DO that. We can DO the will of God. Each one of us.  That was great.

Gary

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7/18/08

Hi John,

Since God created His Son and His Son created everything else, did God’s son create the angels and Satan? or did God do that?

Thanks

Stuart

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Hi Stuart:

This is from John 1:

2. He was in the beginning with God.

3. Everything was created through him, and without him was nothing created that was created.

and from Colossians 1:

16. for by him were all things created in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him . . .

18. and he is also the head of the body, the Assembly of God; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that in everything he might be preeminent.

Now, what does all that sound like to you?

jdc

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7/18/08

Hey,

I would like to add to all the wonderful thoughts from the NT class. The Saturday night class in KY added to my thinking about John the baptizer and his whole work.

The message I got from the fundamentals 3 & 4 lesson was that “the purpose of John the baptizer was to introduce Christ”.  The next thought was... John did not come to introduce baptism; he came to introduce Christ.

I saw how much clearer it is now to explain water baptism. That was not the purpose of John the baptizer. It was just a tool God used. That was so good to me. John the Baptizer did not come to introduce baptism. 8-)

I feel like this NT study is really opening my eyes to a lot of things. I feel very thankful for that.

thanks for everything!

Amy

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Hi Amy,

John the baptizer didn’t come to introduce baptism any more than the Son of God came to heal the sick. Both of them came to do God’s will.  So, the whole issue is not what were they doing but, what was God doing? If we can get to the bottom of that, we will understand the mystery of the gospel of Christ.

Thanks for that thought, that John did not come to introduce baptism to Israel. I think that is one of the best insights any one of us has had yet concerning John the baptizer. To think like that helps us get through the fog and get to the point.

jdc

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7/20/08

Hey John,

I’ve always connected John’s baptism of Jesus as Jesus being born again when the dove descended from heaven. However, none of the Gospels relate Jesus speaking in another language (tongues) when this happened. Even if he did, they wouldn’t have understood it (NT Fundamental #2). And we know the holy Ghost didn’t come until Jesus ascended to the Father. So was Jesus born again or was the “event” just to introduce Jesus to John? Maybe I just answered my own question!!!

Hope to see you soon.

Bro Jim K

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Hi Brother Jim!

Good to hear from you.

I was taught that Jesus was born again the day he was baptized by John, and I have found nothing in the NT that contradicts that, even if there is very little biblical comment on that issue. We are told that Jesus was “the firstborn among many brethren”, but there could be several ways to look at that, as with the other verses about such things as the Son receiving life from the Father. (There are few times when Jesus’ speaking in tongues is suggested by the text (I can think of three), but there is nothing very clear on that, either, and so we just leave it alone. But I assume that he did.)

Without Jesus being born of the Spirit on the day of his baptism, we are left with the Son of God being born in Bethlehem, which is an old Christian myth. The Son of God was never born; he was created, and God made him an earthly body to use for sacrifice, which he “suddenly” came to (Mal. 4:1). The baby Jesus was physically the child of God, but the Son came to inhabit that temple at some point, and all the evidence points to the day the Spirit descended on him as a dove.

Let’s keep our eyes open as we go through the NT and see if anything new stands out to us about this.

jdc

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7/20/08

Christ in the NT

Hi everybody:

Considering what the Lord has been showing us concerning His Son, you all might want to consider looking up the NT verses on “Christ” and reading them through new eyes.  Barbara has been reading some verses to me this morning that she has been looking up, and several have made me have to stop to consider what Paul was really saying and feeling when he spoke of “Christ”.  Maybe we can read some of them this morning, if I can get past what is on my heart to read about in Matthew.

jdc

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7/27/08

Hi again Pastor John:

I was reading over again the notes on God Had A Son Before Mary Did. There is so much food there. You can spend all day just thinking on each paragraph. I began to think on the famous scripture John 3:16. It is one of the most quoted scriptures down through the centuries, and many sects have used it to recruit souls with.

After reading I began to think, “what is believing on Jesus?’’ Jesus said, “He that believeth on me,” as the scripture says, “out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”  He also taught the leaders of his time, from Moses and the Prophets, the scriptures concerning him.

I had these overwhelming feelings of gratitude, as the Spirit has been showing us to believe in Jesus means to know that he was the first begotten of the Father and all things were created by him! Whew....that he was the Father’s delight! The Father loved the world and sent Jesus to finish the Father’s work. To not believe in Jesus means that you deny His very existence before the foundation of the world; Jesus said if we do that then he would deny us in front of his Father.

To not believe in Jesus is where we get Christian sects, and many false doctrines such as; Trinity, Jesus Only, and as some teach now Jesus was only a thought of God.

Jesus says we can know who believes by the rivers of water that will flow from out of their bellies. This is so good and refreshing, and very humbling that Jesus’ only mission since he was begotten was to do the Father’s will. And by honoring Jesus work that his Father sent him to do, is to honor his Father. By honoring his Father we are believing on Him (Jesus) whom the Father sent (to do the Father’s will).

This has really been good to me today!

Billy M.

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7/27/08

Hey,
WOW, tonight’s meeting was Soo good. It came Alive to me, almost just staring me in the face saying I am ALIVE!, I am REAL, I mean everything came alive. Just stuff like everything around God is alive, I mean, his thoughts are alive!!!!  I am hearing things like I’ve never heard it before, it’s wonderful!!! Well that’s what I am thinking on right now!

Sincerely,

Joel N

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That’s good, Joel. I am very glad that you had those feelings. Life is a gift from your heavenly Father to you! Use those feelings of real life and let people around you know you love them. Make your parents happy, and don’t ever let sin take those feelings away from you!

Pastor John

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7/29/08

Hi, John.

I was reading last night some of the new papers that you gave us and thought about something... In Genesis 1, God said “let us make man in our image”.  A thought wouldn’t have an image.

Well, see you....(I’m still really loving what I read in the Old Testament that I wrote to you about. I wanted to tell about it if I got the chance.) What I really saw was that God grieved about His people not keeping His law, and He said over and over that He was going to give His people a new heart and new spirit so that they could and would keep His law and righteousness.

Well, since reading these scriptures (in the prophets), every time I see the word righteousness in the New Testament, I understand that it is only by having God’s (and His Son’s) Spirit that makes this possible, and it is a better understanding. When you talk about reading the scriptures with new eyes about the Son of God, I am also going to be reading with new eyes concerning this about the Spirit and righteousness. This is so good. And also, the scriptures concerning the kingdom of God...Jesus is our King, He’s the King of this kingdom, which came by the Spirit. I don’t know how to better express it, but this is really something to me.)

Lyn

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Hi Lyn.

It is a blessing to see you dig into the right ways of God. I wish the whole world were as open to what the Spirit is saying. There would be peace everywhere if it was.

jdc

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7/31/08

Subject: relationships/repentance message, thank you

Dear John,

I wanted to say thank you to Jesus, and to you, for the message last night on faithfulness, repentance, and relationships.  It was as good an explanation on repentance as I have ever heard. To my eyes and ears, it was one of the best examples of pastoral “work” that I have experienced, too.  It belongs on the internet for all of God’s children to hear, I hope we can do that soon.

Beyond that though, it encouraged me to watch over my relationships carefully.  There have been times, for sure, that I have been lacking in how I have made people feel.  But I can lay that before the Lord, and work to be more careful about it now – you made it so clear what the hearts around me need to “feel” from me.  I thank God for that instruction.

That message last night will increase love between Jesus and me, between my family and me, and amongst me and one another in the body of Christ.  As you said, I want all people God has put in my life to FEEL that I do not “owe” them something.

My overall feeling after last night’s message was, “this is why I am here”.  Jesus knows what I need to be saved.

thanks again.

Gary

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8/5/08

Hey John!

During a long day of work today I got to listen to hear this class for the 4th, 5th and almost 6th time.  Each time I listened to it, it was as if I heard new things or understood things even better. One thing that stood out to me was this from Gal. 1:15–16, “But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen.”

There is something here I am feeling but I don’t fully “have it” as yet concerning Paul’s comment about God revealing His Son in him so he could preach to the Gentiles. Was there something different or extra about how the Father revealed His Son in Paul as compared to the other apostles (whom Paul did not then confer with immediately)?  Without that revelation of the Son he could not have gone to those heathen.

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I think “to” is a more accurate translation that “in”, for that verse from Galatians.

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I love the feelings I am having as I meditate on these things.  The Spirit in me is excited about this understanding and wanting us to revel in it.  I’m looking forward to understanding it even better.

Something that has been in my mind for a little while now.

The Council and the High Priest heard Steven out up until these words, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God”, at which “they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, And cast him out of the city, and stoned him”.

That was what they hated hearing the most it seems and as we are being taught now, it is still that way.

Damien

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That’s a good observation, Damien.  I have noticed that before, how angry Stephen’s seeing the Son in heaven made them.  I think I can use that in the book.

jdc

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8/19/08

Hi Everyone!

This is an email I received from Damien weeks ago, after a gathering when the truth about the Father and the Son was revealed.

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8/4/08

Subject: “but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he”

Pastor John

While speaking with Brother Wendell yesterday he reminded me of how the Lord had shown him how it was that the one least in the kingdom of God (a teacher of false doctrine) is still greater than John the Baptist.  Jesus is so great that when He places someone in the kingdom by baptizing them with the Spirit that act places them higher than anyone who lived under the Old Covenant. (I suppose they become worthy of greater judgment as well).

Tomorrow’s TFE, (08/05 – The Gods, Part Four: Judging), contains some statements that connect with this understanding.

“And when the word of God is welcomed into a human heart, that person is elevated far beyond the plane of normal earthly existence.”

“Though elevated above the plane of ordinary human existence by the word of God, the people “to whom the word of God has come” are still human, and as such, can err.”

“Such conflicts “among the gods” are far beyond the ability of mere mortals to resolve. It is impossible for carnal, worldly judges to judge those gods because the life of any one of those gods is superior to any man of earth.  In comparison to the life that God gives to His people, “every man at his best state is altogether vanity” (Ps. 39:5). “Every man [of earth] is vanity” (Ps. 39:11), but no child of God is “vanity”.  They are all holy, and they all have God’s eternal life dwelling in them.”

Sometimes it seems to me that when you are teaching what “feels” like a new thing it is actually a pulling together of things that the Lord has already taught you previously.  But, in this case, the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts because it is forming a far greater understanding of Jesus and, really, that is how it is with all the righteous men and things that came before the Son of God was on the earth.  Wonderful examples that they are, those men all looked for Jesus to come, and the experiences that are recorded for us and the things God said during that time all point to Christ. He is greater than it all.

Damien

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8/28/08

Pastor John

In John 10:36 Jesus said, “Say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, “You blaspheme” because I said, I am the Son of God?”  Looking at the verbs “sanctified” and “sent” they are both aorist. Can we say certainly (from the Greek standpoint) that the sanctification preceded the sending of the Son into the world? Context says that to me but I’m not confident from a grammar point of view here.

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I don’t see how the tense involved could answer that question.  All we know from the tense is that God both sanctified the Son and sent him into the world.  The time difference between the two experiences, if any, cannot be judged on the basis of the tense. But my feeling is that the Son’s being sanctified came prior to his being sent, if only by a very brief time, mainly because it is impossible that he would have been sent without being sanctified.

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It raises a couple of things to me. If the Son was part of the Trinitarian blob how could he have been not sanctified at some time? And, if he did not actually exist how could he be sanctified (or did God change the thought of the Son to a “holy” thought)?

Damien

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That’s funny.  But you do make a good point.  How could the second person of a triune God ever need to be sanctified?

jdc

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8/29/08

Hey,

I was reading my NT papers on the Four Gospels, and when I got to Part Two where John the Baptist was baptizing, I noticed something I haven’t noticed before.

It’s in Luke 3:7–14.  The multitudes were coming out to be baptized and John says to them, “You offspring of snakes! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit fit for repentance!”  So, what I saw for the first time is that when he demanded that people repent, all John was saying was, “Go get your relationships right!”– then come back and I will baptize you.

Just a few verses later in verse 10, they said to John, “Then, what are we to do?” and he answered them . . . and told them exactly what to do.  He told them, “Let the one who has two shirts share with him who has none.  And he who has food, let him do the same.”  And then to the tax collectors and the soldiers, he told them what to do as well, to keep their relationships intact and in accordance with their worldly duties, and not to hurt people.  That is doing things that make for right relationships!

When John the Baptist told the multitudes to go produce fruit fit for repentance. . . . He was just telling them, “Get your relationships right!” And then he spelled out for them exactly how to do it.  He made it simple for them.  All they needed to do was stay in their place and take care of others’ hearts.

I saw the love of God in this that I hadn’t quite seen before.  God is giving instructions all the time, and sometimes, they may be looked upon as “commands”.  Well, they are godly instructional ones, but the overall picture is, they are full of love from the Father, teaching us how to love one another.  John didn’t command them to do something and then not tell them how to do it.  He gave them commandment and told them exactly how to obey it.

And if we are paying attention and hear what is being said to us right now, Jesus is telling us what to do and how to do it.  If we follow his instructions, we won’t get lost in the details.  We will stay within our boundaries and take care of others and continue to do what is right.

I’ve read this passage from Luke and heard it a dozen times, I guess, but seeing it that way, as God’s call for right relationships, made it clearer.  Seeing John’s preaching in that light revealed the love of the Father a little more . . . “As for God, His way is perfect”.  I feel like we are learning so much.  I want to keep looking forward.  I know there is more up ahead. 8-)

Amy

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Excellent, Amy!

jdc

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8/30/08

Hey Pastor John,

I have a few Father and Son questions.

When the burning bush came to Moses in Chapter 3 of Exodus, was that the Father or the Son appearing and speaking to Moses? It reads as if it was the Father speaking.

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Neither one appeared to Moses there.  It was an angel in the burning bush, but the Father was the one speaking through that angel.

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Also, did the Son create everything in heaven? I know he created everything on earth, but we were wondering about heaven.

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Here is what Paul said (Col. 1:16): “For by him were all things created in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.”

Here is what John said (Jn. 1:3): “Everything was created through him, and without him was nothing created that was created.”

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Did the heavenly beings know about the Son’s existence?

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No, they did not.  Of course, they know about him now, but their continued ignorance of his kind of life is why they “desire to look into” this gospel that we have received.

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All this makes me want to go back and read all the Psalms of the Father and the Son carrying on a conversation through David. If they were speaking to each other through David, then that must mean the Son was created and with the Father before Jesus came.

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Of course it does. Isn’t that a beautiful thing to see in the Old Testament now? How blessed we are to know the Son!

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This is all really interesting, because it is something that I never really questioned before or gave much thought to. I am slowly processing it all, but I think it is starting to all piece together more. :-)

Margo

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8/30/08

Hey John,

What happened to the soul of Jesus when the Son of God took over his body (assuming the Son also had a soul)? And what is the relationship between the spirit of God and our soul, other than we need the spirit of God to save our souls? Do they ascend to heaven together when the body dies? I think there is a scripture about God being the only one who can separate the two.

I tried researching this, but didn’t find much. Please help.

Thanks,

Bro Jim K

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Hey Jim.

Anyone who has thought much about this issue has had that question, or something very much like it.  And I do not have the answer.

Having that question is what made me so seriously consider the doctrine that God had no Son until Mary did. That teaching leaves us with no such question as you and I have asked concerning what happened to the person of Jesus after the Son of God took possession of that human temple. On the other hand, that doctrine raises several questions of its own that have no reasonable answer.  So, we are still left with having to make a choice.  Was the Son with the Father in the beginning or was he not?

For the truth of the matter, we begin by asking, What does the Bible, as a whole, tell us? And as a whole, the Bible very clearly teaches that the Son was there from the beginning with the Father but that he was kept a secret by the Father, and that the Son created all things. So, that’s where we stand, and it is a wonderful place to be. I will hold on to that plain truth until I can understand (if I ever can) all the details.

Maybe someday the Lord will help us understand what happened to Mary’s Son when God’s Son took over that body. I think I am open to hear what the Spirit is saying about that. At least, I pray that I am.

jdc

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9/1/08

Hey Brother John:

I really enjoyed the question that Bro. Jim K. asked and also your answer. It stirred things up in me, so, I’d like to add to it, if I may.

You are obviously correct about the Son being with the Father since before the Creation. And it is also correct that Jesus the son of Mary was born approximately 2000 years ago, born just like every other man since Adam. But he was the vessel (body) chosen by the Father which would become the firstborn of many brethren.

The Son of God (Spirit of Christ) entered into that chosen body when Mary’s son came up out of the water after being baptized by John the Baptizer. He was the first to receive the baptism of the holy Spirit.  At that time, he was just like we are.  Hebrews 2:17 says, “Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people”.  His prayers, like ours, were heard because he feared the Father (Heb. 5:7).  He was made perfect by the things which he suffered, as we also are (Heb. 2:10).  He, too, had to conquer his flesh and learn to live according to the will of the Father which he did, showing us that we could overcome the will of our flesh and live holy and righteously before God without the fear of man or death. When Jesus was crucified, it seems reasonable to believe that when he was dead that his soul then went to Paradise like all the righteous souls before it.

Billy H.

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Hi Billy:

I certainly don’t have the answers to all the questions we are asking, but something about your email brought about another thought. We have been asking, “What happened to Jesus?” or “What happened to God’s Son?” Maybe we should be asking instead, “What happened to both of them?”  Somehow, they were blended and became one new man, a man with a natural body but God’s eternal, holy Spirit on the inside.  Paul said that the Son of God “emptied himself” when he came into the world (Phip. 2). What exactly does that mean? I have assumed it meant that he left his heavenly body and its glory behind and took possession of the earthly temple prepared for him, but who among us can possibly understand all that was entailed in that act of self-sacrifice?

Sometime, we just have to sit back, be content, and say, “I don’t know. . . . But God does.”

The biggest truth that is revealed in the story of Jesus is still that “God is love, and he who dwells in love dwells in God, and He in him.” If we stay in that place, we don’t have to comprehend all mysteries in order to be happy. I just thank God for what he has shown us. Let’s love that, for if we love what He sends, we do love Him.

jdc

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9/2/08

Hey!

I was just reading and noticed something that I hadn’t seen before. In Luke 3:21-22, it says that Jesus was baptized and praying and then the holy Ghost came down on him. I had never seen that before. I always thought that the holy Ghost came on him when he was baptized in water. Am I reading that right? If so, that was good to me! He was keeping the law perfectly and was no different from the others until the holy Ghost came down, and that was a separate experience from the water baptism! Ha!

Cris

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Yes, Cris, you read that rightly.  It was after Jesus was baptized, and while he was praying as he came up from the river that the Spirit of God, in the form of a dove, came and rested upon him.

jdc

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9/4/08

Hey there,

I have been thinking more today about the Mystery of Christ and it being revealed to us. There are so many thoughts with this. Anyway, today I was talking to some others about what we have learned, and I started thinking about Paul and his purpose.  We read about Paul in Ephesians, he was saying that the mystery was revealed to him that had not been revealed to generations before (Eph. 3:1–11, your translation):

For this reason, I, Paul, am a prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles (if you have indeed heard of the stewardship of the grace of God which was given to me for you), for by revelation, the mystery was made known to me, as also I briefly wrote before, concerning which you are able, as you read, to perceive my understanding in the Mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men as it is now revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit....

To me, the least of all saints, was this grace given, to proclaim to the Gentiles the incomprehensible richness of Christ and to enlighten [all] men as to what is the disposition of the mystery which has been hidden from the Aeons in God who created all things, so that the multi-faceted wisdom of God might be now made known to the rulers and authorities among the heavenly beings through the Called-out people, according to an eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Master.....

There are several wonderful things in just these verses, but my thought is that Paul’s purpose in life was to “enlighten [all] men as to what is the disposition of the mystery.”  I remember you said that you could feast on what you were learning that Saturday night for days when things were opening up to you.  Well, I thought about Paul.  He was feasting on that same thing, the mystery that had been revealed to him, which was something that had never been revealed before and God was using him to do it.  He understood the value of what he had and knew the love of God that was in it for us.  It was important.  That is what kept him going all those years. That is what gave him the strength to do what he did, which was apart from what had always been taught, even when Jesus was here on earth.  That is how he could suffer the persecution, the failures, the sorrow, etc., and how he could endure in faith to pass it on.

I feel like I understand Paul a little better now too.  He was thrilled with what he knew.  You can feel the love of God in Paul’s words.  He was “filling up what was lacking in the body of Christ,” and he understood that.  Reading your notes from this helped to put me back into OT times, to think like they did, so that I would understand what was really going on.  Paul had to have something from God that would fill him up...and that was the Mystery that was revealed to him.

Thanks.

Amy

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9/10/08

I was reading today, and these verses reminded me of some of what you were saying in the God Had a Son book concerning Old Testament people. They had such faith, yet they could not understand or obtain the promise because Jesus had not come. They lacked what the Son alone would make available:

Hebrews 11:40: “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”

Gary

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Gary:

This fundamental truth of the NT is very difficult for us to truly receive into our hearts. The pride that is in our flesh would never allow us to confess just how blind we all really were, and still are, if we drift away from Jesus.  He gives us the light of life!  Still, our fleshly nature “wars against” the very thing that is teaching us and saving us, the holy Spirit of God.  Our fleshly nature is desperate to make room for us to claim that we knew something – anything! – about God before He sent His Son to save us, and therefore we contributed at least a little something to our salvation.

Isn’t that funny?

jdc

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9/25/08

Hey there!

I just want to say how WONDERFUL the message on “Believing” is.  I just finished listening to the cd for the third time, and every time is just as good as the first.  It explains so much about the disciples and the people in the Old Testament, their thoughts and lack of understanding, even though they believed, and it explains us!

I love the way this message makes me feel.  It is a reminder to me of who I am and where God is.  It brings out the importance of the holy Ghost, and shows the greatness of the love of God and His mercy.  I made a few notes while listening, and I loved the part where you said the holy Ghost had to re-create our whole being in order for us to understand the ways of God. There is no way we could have understood anything without first having our understanding opened by the holy Ghost.  The holy Ghost is Wisdom.  It is the spirit of Jesus and the Father, together, in us. Without it, it would be impossible to even comprehend such things.

Something else that caught my attention was when you said Jesus was at war (spiritually) with every person on earth when he came.  Every person!  When he said he was alone, except for his Father, I believe it (now, more than ever)! No one understood what Jesus was doing. Jesus was constantly around people who did not understand him. Really! They had no idea what he was talking about because they did not have it in them to understand – not even his disciples, even though they felt something for him. Just the thought of having that spiritual warfare going on continually makes you think of Jesus’ strength to continue loving us. And how much more that means to us, that Jesus did what he did!  It really was a sacrifice that only he could make.  We think we have spiritual problems sometimes, but look at the love Jesus had for us!  He was thinking of us, not himself when he was dealing with all of us who did not understand him while he was here, and that love kept him going.  That should help us be more like him, and help us make it through our spiritual problems by thinking more of him than ourselves.

Thanks!

Amy

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9/26/08

Hey Pastor John,

In Luke 2 Jesus’ parents left him for three days, and they found him in the temple sitting and listening to the teachers.  In verse 49, he said to them that he had to be in his Father’s house.  I know that this was just the child Jesus, and the Son of God had not descended upon him yet.  I was thinking about that verse and wondering . . . was that the Spirit of God speaking through him, as we saw many times, or was it just a desire that God put in him for righteousness and godly teachings at an early age?  I would imagine God would have put a strong desire in his heart for holy things, not to mention that his parents must have brought him up in a godly home.  It kinda sounded like he may have been saying those things under the influence God’s spirit.

Margo

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Hi Margo.

The boy Jesus obviously had a keen sense of his special relationship with God. That was what motivated the things he said to his parents in Luke 2.

jdc

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10/7/08

Hey,

The scriptures in Luke 24 [that we read in the NT class] have been so good to me, and I wanted to read them again. In Luke 24:27 Jesus was encouraging those two sad men by going over all of the scriptures that were written about him, starting with Moses and all of the prophets. Later in Luke, he sat there with them and the other eleven disciples and ate, just to show them he wasn’t a spirit, and you know he didn’t need to eat! He is so sweet to us. Then he opened up their understanding of all those scriptures. They had to feel so loved when he showed them what he had done for them. They still didn’t understand it, but they had enough love in their hearts to wait for the promise, whatever that was, in Jerusalem, with great joy :) Ahhhhhh

Cris

P.S. Has there been a complete list of those OT scriptures about Jesus, from Moses, the prophets and Psalms?  That would be the love story that he told those disciples that encouraged them to tarry in Jerusalem.  They had seen them come to pass, and he told them in Luke 24:48 that they were the witnesses of those things.  Wow!

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There have been many such lists made (in the back of many Bibles there are such lists), but of course, they are all incomplete. One would have to re-write just about the entire OT to have a complete list of what was written beforehand about the Son of God. The best anyone can do is pick out some of the OT prophetic deeds, symbols, and words to make a list.

So, I don’t know that Jesus actually went over all that was written in the law and prophets about him, but it certainly would have been thrilling to be with them that day on the road to Emmaus to hear what Jesus did say!

jdc

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10/7/08

Hey Uncle John,

This morning was so good. One of the things that really stood out to me was going over those verses about the Spirit being life. It just made something click in me. I’m not sure what it was. But anyways, the word “life” is so easy just to scan right over as you’re reading through, so, tonight, I decided to go back and read through the verses that you had listed in context with the rest of the chapter. These are some other verses that stood out to me. I’ve only gotten through the verses on the top of the page so far.

Romans 8:2, 6 – For the law of the *Spirit of life* in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Psalms 16:11 – Thou wilt show me the *path of life*: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

For some reason, I decided to flip back to Psalms and I found this verse as I was flipping through. Talking through David, Jesus was saying that his Father would show him the path of the spirit?  Right?

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yes

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John 6:53 – Then Jesus said unto them, you have no *life* in you.

Could this be read as him saying, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you don’t have the spirit in you?

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yes

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This weekend was really really good. Thank you for doing the NT course with us.

Atn

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10/7/08

The New Testament study was exceptional this past weekend! The feelings were overwhelming. I was thinking on the way home about how I had similar feelings going through the Old Testament. For me, the Father was introducing Himself to us through the Old Testament study. Now the Father is introducing His son to us through the New Testament study. How blessed we are!

Tom

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10/12/08

Hi John,

I just finished reading your unfinished book, God Had a Son Before Mary Did, and it is wonderful. John, when you first came to Louisville with the revelation on the Father and the Son that the Lord gave to you and shared it with us, I could feel the scales fall off of my eyes.  I could see more clearly in everything I read what God was doing with his Son for his people, and it was overwhelming to see the love that God has for all of his people on this planet.  It truly is a love story, as Sister Sandy would say.

One thing that really stuck out to me while reading the manuscript, or should I say one question that keeps going over and over in my mind is, “Where is this taking place today?”  What people are being persecuted by God’s own children for telling the truth about what God did through his Son Jesus Christ? And where is a man to whom God has given such authority on this earth today?  I know there are some here today fulfilling their parts that God has given them, and I am thankful that I know one!  I pray to God that all of his children will ask these questions.  He has men here today that are following His will and not their own.  God and His Son are still working through people today for the good of his Bride, for whom Jesus will come, and whom he will take home to the wedding supper, and happy are they who find his way on this earth today!

Bro. Stuart

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We should pray, Brother Stuart, that the Lord will raise up pastors after his own heart, who will feed the children of God knowledge and wisdom.  But more than that, let us pray that He will also raise up prophets, teachers, healers, and others, including apostles, for His people’s good.

jdc

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11/04/08

Subject: Question: The law

Dear John,

In your introduction to the NT on page 3, you mentioned that the conditions of the NT were the same as the OT with the exception of the civil laws.  Aren’t the conditions different for the ceremonial laws? In other words, we are not carrying out all of the ceremonies now as they did then, are we?  Maybe I need clarification on what is meant by conditions.  Thanks.

Thanks John.

Bro Jim K

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What I meant was that ceremonial laws such circumcision and the Sabbath are still required of God’s people, albeit in the Spirit, not the flesh. On the other hand, civil authority does not exist at all among the people of God now. It is suspended until the return of Christ to reign on earth a thousand years. And, of course, God’s moral laws are still in effect; in fact, they are more in effect than they were under the law, being raised to a higher level (e. g., Mt. 5:38–39).

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12/10/08

Tonight was wonderful!  I was feeling the words in that song, “Let me Follow Him”, in the depths of my soul.  I realized as you were talking afterwards about nobody understanding who Jesus was in the Old Testament, that I could not feel what I was feeling about following Jesus and walking close to him without the holy  inside feeling that for me.

Lee Ann

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Amen, LeeAnn. We are so blessed to experience God’s thoughts and feelings about His Son! That is really what’s going on with us, you know? That’s really what the gospel is all about. This is what no OT figure could feel or think, and it is what “the angels desire to look into.”

jdc

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Father and Son Emails – 2009

1/12/09

Section of your book, “A Who, Not a What”

Hey John,

This section of your book is good!  It brought back memories of when I came this way.  One of the first things my parents said to me was, “You are just following a man.”  Well, I know God put something in my heart to trust that you were telling me the truth.  We have to know the who is right first, or we will never know the what is right.  I thank God for sending Jesus for us to follow.  This was very good!!!!!

Lou

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Hi Lou:

God’s way is as simple and good as it can be.  Ungodly people try to make God’s way of doing things seem strange so that they can make themselves look good to other people.  But God is not fooled because God knows the heart.  And that is what it is all about.

jdc

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3/15/09

Hi John,

I wanted to just tell you how much I was blessed reading your chapter 10.  I read it last night, and when I got done, the thought I had was, “Everything I am reading here I agree with.”  That’s the way it always is, but last night, I took note of that “feeling” – and it was a thankful feeling for that which is normal in God’s kingdom, and that should always be expected by us.  Good food.

When we read it again today, I felt the same way.  When Lou shared about the pastors mentioned in Ezekiel today, and what they had done to the sheep’s food and water, it made me realize all the more what I was thankful for last night, and today.  Thankful that you have always fed us with good water from Jesus that we can trust, and we have never had to filter out mud and debris like almost all of God’s children everywhere have to do, just to get a morsel.  We can read it, knowing it’s going to be good, and something that our insides will say “amen” to.  We had in just one chapter more than most get in their entire spiritual lifetimes.

Reading the responses to the book orders too... Whew, God’s children need some relief!  I hope God can open their hearts and get this good food to them.  It’s so sweet to feel their joy in getting it.  I am looking forward to reading the entire book.

Gary

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3/15/09

Subject: excerpt from new book

Thank you for sending us an excerpt from your book, Pastor John.  The communion ceremony was one of those ceremonies that I had a hard time understanding the reasoning behind, probably because I was not fully understanding Jesus’ real meaning about drinking his blood and eating his flesh.  But when you were speaking to the folks in Louisville about the time when you were young, and you didn’t know what the little cups of wine were for, so you and your friend just drank them and pretended to be drunk, that stood out to me.  And then, later on, you said, “That’s what people have to do without God’s life in them; they have to PRETEND to drink of the Spirit, and PRETEND to have fellowship with the Father, the Son, and with each other.  That is Christianity’s ceremonial communion.”  Anyway, this really helped to clear things up for me.

After reading through the law for the first time a while back, what really struck me is how detailed the ceremonial works of the law were, and how precisely God required them to be performed.  I just could not believe that God would go to so much trouble teaching Moses exactly what was required of Israel in the Old Testament (15 chapters on building the tabernacle alone!), and then give seemingly vague hints at ceremonies to be performed for His New Covenant.  To perform ceremonies in this covenant just makes no sense, and rebellion really does seem to be what is necessary for someone to insist on forcing what Jesus said into a Christian box and making a ceremony out of it.

Thank you again, and thank you for keeping me in the email loop.  I consider it a privilege.

Vince

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3/15/09

Subject: Responses to the ending of Chapter 11

Good point from Vince in paragraph 2!  God would surely have been more detailed in how to carry out a ceremony in the covenant if He had wanted us to perform one.  Wow, never thought of that.

Bekah

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Me either.  I noticed that, and meant to comment on it, but I forgot to do it when I sent it out.  I hope others noticed what you did. It was a great observation.

Love you,

Daddy

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3/18/09

Hey John,

Thanks for the revelation of the Father and Son of WHO they really are.  It has touched me deeply.  It has put such a tenderness in my heart for them and for God’s people.  Ever since you taught on relationships, I can see the wonderful effect it has had on all of us.  The depth of love through the e-mails for one another and our brothers and sisters we are in contact with!  It’s all about relationships, just as you have said.  This is what all of God’s people are really hungering for, if only they wouldn’t be afraid to eat of this wonderful knowledge of good.

Thanks, John, you have been a true Pastor and a true friend for as long as I have known you, and I love you for it.

Sister Betty

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Hi Betty.

I like what Sandy said a little while ago, Betty.  No matter what happens, it’s “full Spirit ahead!”

Jesus has brought us all through so much over the years, and all along, it’s been “full Spirit ahead.” That’s how we have learned to love one another as he has loved us. Let’s keep going!

Thanks.

jdc

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4/05/09

Pastor John

Last night’s meeting makes it seem that we have come back to the starting point from over two years ago – “hypocrites” – and all that it means: impostors, pretenders, phonies, etc.

Insincerity is what makes men appear one way but be another way within. Without God, we will adopt one form or another and, so, become hypocrites. That very question, “What religion are you?” reveals the insincerity of the carnal nature. It is asking, “Which fake, outward appearance have you chosen?”

After James Hammond’s comments, I looked up the word religion. My computer concordance had these definitions for the Greek word threskeia.

1) religious worship

1a) esp. external, that which consists of ceremonies

1a1) religious discipline, religion

ceremonial observance: religion, worshiping (Strong’s)

Contrast those definitions with those given for the root Greek word threskos.

1) fearing or worshiping God

2) to tremble

2a) trembling, fearful

Everybody has fears, I suppose, but how do they fear? There is a way of outward form, with its appearance of fearing God, (but “there is no fear of God before their eyes”), and there is the way of working out our salvation with fear and trembling.

Damien

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4/07/09

Good morning Pastor John,

I felt a little sad yesterday about not being able to be at your house last night.  Oh, how I wanted to be!  I decided to listen to the newest Father and Son music CD that Rob had given me.  I was listening to “My Chosen One” (that’s as far as I got), and some of the lines really stood out to me.

In the first chorus, the Father is saying to His Son: “Oh, the joy in your eyes as you made it all unfold!” In the beginning, all that was, included only the Father and Son. The Son must have felt like bursting inside as he “made it all unfold,” seeing all Creation come to be from nothing but the Father’s will.

In the second chorus, the Father is saying: “Oh, the joy in my heart as their Savior was made known, and to know that you are my chosen one!”  I cannot even comprehend the feelings God must have had as He made His Son known to the world, loving him as much as He did, and knowing what His Son would go through for us.  And also, loving us as much as He did, and does still, knowing that without His Son we will perish. His son was willing to be abused, tortured, and killed for our sake.  If that doesn’t humble a person and make him grateful in his heart toward God, I don’t know what will.

The last chorus is very good also, when the Father says, “Oh, the love in your heart as you’ve lived your Father’s will!”  To me, living the Father’s will goes beyond just doing the Father’s will.  Doing the Father’s will sounds like duty or work, which I guess is fine, but “living the Father’s will” sounds more like life to me.  That is what I want, to live the Father’s will.

I kept this somewhat brief, but I am sure you get the idea of the thoughts I was having in the Spirit yesterday, and today still.

“Heart of Gold” is at the top of my list right now.  I heard the rest of the mandolin part in my sleep during the night, and I have been playing along with the song this morning.  I can feel the Spirit in the notes of the mandolin as I play it.  It is a wonderful song, and I am thankful to be able to add it to my list of wonderful songs.  Thank you, John, for sharing with us all that the Spirit is showing you.  It is helping me to live.

Darren

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4/9/09

Subject: Life vs. Form

Pastor John, at home after last Wednesday nights meeting, when you spoke about having no form, no acting or covering up, I found myself confronted with an awesome, most wondrous position!  I had a complete ‘soul soaking’ realization of this fact :-) I have, at no time in my life, not been acting! covering up! putting on a front! I found myself now, completely stripped naked of all my coverings. Layers and layers and layers..and layers of me were taken away!  GONE!

I said to Jesus, “What do I do now?”  He said “Nothing!” Then he said, “Wait on me.” I felt like a little child, with no coverings of adult thoughts and feelings.  I felt a deep happiness inside me of what I can only describe as ‘innocent’ joy of a small child, and it put a smile on my face that felt like it goes all the way through me and it doesn’t want to quit. :)  I feel new!  And I am waiting for whatever Jesus brings to me to do, think, or feel!  Mmmmmm this is wonderful!!!!  I’m excited about him being the potter and me being clay in his hands, and him doing “his delight” with me, to bring him glory, whatever that entails.  MMMmmmm....goooood!

Sister Kay

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4/13/09

Life vs. Form

John,

We watched the videos of both Friday and Monday nights of the reading of the Father and Son book this weekend.  Wow! The door that has been opened feels scary but full of hope. I know I have been guilty of acting and hiding behind forms over the years. After watching the videos, I feel like being still. It feels real sobering to me.

When I was in college in the mid-70s, I ran across the following poem, “The Mask I Wear”.  It really impressed me at the time.  It reminded me of what you said in the video about everyone around us in the world being an actor.  I am looking forward to reading the last chapter of your book.  Hope to see you soon.

Tom

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Please Hear What I’m Not Saying

                                                                                                Don’t be fooled by me.

Don’t be fooled by the face I wear

for I wear a mask, a thousand masks,

masks that I’m afraid to take off,

and none of them is me.

Pretending is an art that’s second nature with me,

but don’t be fooled,

for God’s sake don’t be fooled.

I give you the impression that I’m secure,

that all is sunny and unruffled with me, within as well

            as without,

that confidence is my name and coolness my game,

that the water’s calm and I’m in command

and that I need no one,

but don’t believe me.

My surface may seem smooth but my surface is my mask,

ever-varying and ever-concealing.

Beneath lies no complacence.

Beneath lies confusion, and fear, and aloneness.

But I hide this. I don’t want anybody to know it.

I panic at the thought of my weakness exposed.

That’s why I frantically create a mask to hide behind,

a nonchalant sophisticated facade,

to help me pretend,

to shield me from the glance that knows.

But such a glance is precisely my salvation, my only hope,

and I know it.

That is, if it’s followed by acceptance,

if it’s followed by love.

It’s the only thing that can liberate me from myself,

from my own self-built prison walls,

from the barriers I so painstakingly erect.

It’s the only thing that will assure me

of what I can’t assure myself,

that I’m really worth something.

But I don’t tell you this. I don’t dare to, I’m afraid to.

I’m afraid your glance will not be followed by acceptance,

will not be followed by love.

I’m afraid you’ll think less of me,

that you’ll laugh, and your laugh would kill me.

I’m afraid that deep-down I’m nothing

and that you will see this and reject me.

So I play my game, my desperate pretending game,

with a facade of assurance without

and a trembling child within.

So begins the glittering but empty parade of masks,

and my life becomes a front.

I idly chatter to you in the suave tones of surface talk.

I tell you everything that’s really nothing,

and nothing of what’s everything,

of what’s crying within me.

So when I’m going through my routine

do not be fooled by what I’m saying.

Please listen carefully and try to hear what I’m not saying,

what I’d like to be able to say,

what for survival I need to say,

but what I can’t say.

I don’t like hiding.

I don’t like playing superficial phony games.

I want to stop playing them.

I want to be genuine and spontaneous and me

but you’ve got to help me.

You’ve got to hold out your hand

even when that’s the last thing I seem to want.

Only you can wipe away from my eyes

the blank stare of the breathing dead.

Only you can call me into aliveness.

Each time you’re kind, and gentle, and encouraging,

each time you try to understand because you really care,

my heart begins to grow wings--

very small wings,

very feeble wings,

but wings!

With your power to touch me into feeling

you can breathe life into me.

I want you to know that.

I want you to know how important you are to me,

how you can be a creator--an honest-to-God creator--

of the person that is me

if you choose to.

You alone can break down the wall behind which I tremble,

you alone can remove my mask,

you alone can release me from my shadow-world of panic,

from my lonely prison,

if you choose to.

Please choose to.

Do not pass me by.

It will not be easy for you.

A long conviction of worthlessness builds strong walls.

The nearer you approach to me

the blinder I may strike back.

It’s irrational, but despite what the books say about man

often I am irrational.

I fight against the very thing I cry out for.

But I am told that love is stronger than strong walls

and in this lies my hope.

Please try to beat down those walls

with firm hands but with gentle hands

for a child is very sensitive.

Who am I, you may wonder?

I am someone you know very well.

For I am every man you meet

and I am every woman you meet.

                        Charles C. Finn

                        September 1966

==========

4/24/09

(A letter from Amy B. to Brother Gary)

As we were listening to the teaching from Monday night on Sincerity and Form, John began having thoughts to add to it.  I think he plans to include them in the book. These are the two things he said that touched me:

“Jesus came to give us life and to deliver us from form. Form is the default condition of men, and the life of God is our only hope of escaping it. When David called God his refuge and his “high tower, to which I may continually resort”, this is what he was talking about. In God’s presence, he felt free from all form; he felt real and safe; he felt God’s abundant life, and he loved it.”

Then, this touched me:

“No one can escape the curse of form without being called out of it by God. The pressures against sincerity, the pressures to put on an act, are simply too great for any of us to overcome in this world. Paul said, “When we were without strength, Christ died for the ungodly” (Rom. 5:6). It is ungodly to act. It is ungodly to hide behind some form, because God never does. Christ died for those who were acting, for those who were afraid and hiding behind a form of one sort or another. The author of Hebrews says that Christ came to set at liberty those who were in bondage to fear all their lives (2:15). That man of God said it is the fear of death that Jesus came to set us free from, and that is true, but what is even more true is that people fear real life, and Jesus came to set us free from that fear, too.”

Who would think that people are more afraid of life than they are of death, and that Jesus came to set us free from our fear of living, and that “form” is what we are trapped in? Wow....

Amy

==========

4/24/09

Hi Pastor John,

Wow, this is good! As I was reading this email a new thought came to me about Mat 3:17. “And Jesus, when he was baptized, went straightway out of the water, and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him. And, lo, a voice from heaven, saying, ‘This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.’” I had always thought that where God said, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” referred to Jesus.  The new thought was that God was referring to his Son that was descending.

Bro Randell

==========

That is correct, Brother Randell.  I recently wrote a section in the book which makes that point.

jdc

==========

4/26/09

John,

I had never thought of the Son of God “becoming a life-giving spirit” the way you explain it.  I understood it in terms of being the one who baptizes with the Spirit. There is something about this that just tickles me inside. I know I don’t fully get it yet, but it feels so good to even start to think about it all!  It casts the Trinity in a different light. That idea removes the love of God from everything.  No wonder a lying, slanderous, and envious spirit promotes it so strongly, and no wonder that it (as well as its twin – the “Oneness” doctrine) makes its strongest adherents harsh and arrogant.

I had a thought this week regarding “visible representatives” and “institutions”. Institutions serve to hide the identity of the visible representatives of Satan who first taught the false doctrines which the institutions are based upon. Everything has, or has had, a visible representative. Hiding behind “form” enables institutions to hide the evidence that there were individuals “that went out from us” who brought in the heresies that lie at the heart of each denomination. This leaves the men of the Institution free to persecute people following men sent by God.

djc

==========

4/26/09

Oh, Boy! Thanks for sending out the excerpts from the God Had A Son book today.

Yummmmm! What good things. Makes me think of the slogan “Milk, it does a body good!”, but in a different manner. Something like.... “This truth, it does a soul good!” I have thoroughly enjoyed the feeling of Jesus telling about his homeland, heaven, where he had lived with the Father from the beginning, and Randell’s question. I had not thought of that until he asked the question, that God was referring to his Son that was descending. What love God has for us! He shared it with us. Makes me think of Bro. Gary’s song that goes, “. . .but we wanted you.” My, what love the Father has for the Son, and both of them for us!

I was reading some Thought for the Evenings tonight from the website and came across this one that you quoted from Isaiah. It just added to the feelings from today when I read this:

“How can we mortals understand a kingdom where joy will not only exist forever but will always increase, where peace will always increase, where goodness and power will always increase?” I copied and pasted it below.

That is all for now!! See ya soon!

Julie A.

=========

4/27/09

Subject: excerpt from God Had a Son book

Hey John,

Oh my my my!  Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, John.  I’m reading and re-reading this because it is out of this world. I cannot read this without crying because it is the best love story I have ever read and felt.  What love the Father had for the Son, and the Son for his Father!  It’s breathtaking.  And they both have that love for US!!!!!!!!

I had thought as Randell, that God was talking about Jesus, but He was talking about His Son!!!!! He was talking about His beloved Son who was His daily delight and He sent him down here to give us His life. Oh the love of God! I love it all, but this part was so sweet:

The life that the son of Mary received as he came up from the Jordan River was the life that had been with the Father from the beginning of time. As John said in the opening verses of his gospel, that life was with God, and it was God, and it came down here to dwell among us, and “we beheld his glory, glory, as from a father to an only begotten son, full of grace and truth” (Jn. 1:14). That life was the Son, and the Son said that he had received it from the Father and had received power to pass that life on to others.

Oh my my my!  God help us take this in!  This is so good, It’s wonderful!!!!!! This makes me love the title of this book more and more everyday, God Had A Son Before Mary Did. WOW WOW WOW!!! Keep writing!

Lou

==========

4/27/09

Pastor John:

Your last email from your book, “God Had a Son”, is wonderful. Wonderful isn’t even a big enough word to describe it.

What the Lord has given you is BIGGER than . . . . All I know is that it makes me fall down on my knees. Do we saints really fully understand how BIG all of this is? I am trying to take it in, little by little. All I know is I am thankful for what He is doing through you. And Pastor John, no words can explain how thankful we are for you.

Today, it feels like there are no words to describe it all. Words of this world are not adequate enough.

All we can do is just praise HIM!!!!!!!!!

Diane

==========

Oh, Diane! Thank you so much for your love, you and Jim both.

Yes, this IS big, and the whole world opposes it, with its religious forms that imprison the flesh. We ourselves need help from Jesus to believe it and love it in a world like this -- and he is doing it!

See you soon!

jdc

==========

4/27/09

Subject: the virgin birth

John,

I have been enjoying reading your book excerpts and people’s responses, especially Randall’s.

One thing that stands out is how little about the “Son” I know. It’s like a ripple on the water... what we are learning about God’s Son magnifies what we don’t know about him, it gets bigger and bigger. It’s like, “Where have I been?”

There are a few verses you sent from 1Corinthians that have fascinated me and brought up a question about Mary’s virgin conception:

1Cor. 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

1Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cor. 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

I’m assuming here that the “last Adam” and the “second man” are the same thing? Verse 47 especially stood out: “the second man is the Lord from heaven”. The second man, I had always assumed was Jesus - the body that came from Mary. But that’s not what it says. It says that the second man was “the Lord from heaven.” When the Spirit came into Jesus, God created a new race of man, if I understand it right. A new kind of Adam.

I did look that verse up in the Greek, not that it would help me too much – but it’s pretty straightforward. It just says what it says: “The second man is the Lord from heaven.”

What I keep thinking about is why Mary had to be a virgin. Ever since you started the book, that thought keeps coming back to me. If the Son was “inserted” (for lack of a better word), into the human container of Jesus at his new birth -– why was a virgin birth necessary? Why did the container have to be “conceived by the holy Ghost?” in Mary?

Christians teach something like “It was so that Jesus would have a sinless nature” – but that sounds so unlike what we are learning. Somehow though, a virgin birth must be connected to the “second man”. I’ve never understood the virgin birth and it’s necessity.  I don’t know if this is in the book or not.

Gary

==========

Hi Gary:

Christians have it all wrong. Jesus’ natural birth, even from a virgin, did not give him a sinless nature; on the contrary, it gave him a sinful nature.  Jesus really was human. “The Lord from heaven” was the one with a sinless nature. I asked my father once if Jesus ever sinned as a young man, and he said, “It doesn’t matter. When he received the holy Ghost and was born again, he started anew with a clean slate, just as we do when we are born again.” From that day at the Jordan River, for certain, he did not sin, but his life before that day is irrelevant to our redemption and salvation. That is probably one reason that God had almost nothing recorded about Jesus before his baptism, when the Son came.

Isaiah said that one of the signs of the Messiah would be that he would be born of a virgin. Other than that, I don’t see a necessity for it.

jdc

[Note: Not long after this, Jesus helped Pastor John understand the very important reason that Jesus had to be born of a virgin, and he wrote about it in the book.]

==========

4/28/09

Bro. John:

As I was reading Brother Gary’s email, re: the virgin birth, and it came to me that God was not going to allow man to take credit for anything concerning His Son, even the conception of the earthly vessel. He alone was the Father. If Joseph had been involved with the conception, he might have tried to take credit for Jesus’ birth. The way God does things does not allow man to take credit. Joseph could not take credit, and Mary could not take credit. Only God was in control of how Jesus and the Son entered into this world. God just loved His Son too much to choose anything but a virgin birth. It wasn’t about Joseph and Mary, or a virgin birth vs non-virgin birth, it was (and still is) about the Authority and Power of God. If God had chosen Joseph’s seed to conceive Jesus and Mary had not been a virgin, God’s power still could have changed the earthly vessel into the Son of God. God did not want man to take any credit. No man could say to Jesus, “I brought you into this world.”

From Jesus’ conception to the Son of God entering into the world, man could take no credit. God did it! God never lost control of what was happening with His Son. He never lost sight of why He sent him. He never lost sight of us. It was a Father and Son relationship that we were brought into, not the other way around.

As we have said before, it is not “why” or “what”, it is Who.

Life is just amazing when you see the Who.

Sandy  :)

==========

John,

I just finished reading the excerpts that you sent out. It brought tears to my eyes when I read the part about how God was speaking to His Son, not Jesus, when He said that He was well-pleased. It really touched me, the love between the two of them, when I think of how hard it must have been for God to let him go, and then calling out to him as he left! Ohh! It means even more after reading Proverbs 8:30. I remember reading that months and months ago in a NT class, and I loved that verse as soon as I heard it. I never knew them to have that relationship. Then to know that it was done for us, so we can have that life! Just as others have been saying...it is beyond words. Thank you, John, for everything!

Love,

Carrie

==========

Hi Carrie.

Paul and the other apostles exhorted the saints to walk worthy of Christ. But when I consider the love we have received from the Father and the Son, I have to wonder how we can ever walk worthy of that! Oh, God help us!

love,

jdc

==========

4/27/09

Bro. John:

I’m not sure which part I love more in this message because it is SO wonderful, but here are some things that touched my heart:

Jesus told his disciples that God’s Spirit was with them and would soon be in them (Jn. 14:17), and because God’s life is God (minus His body) and God’s life was in the Son, both of them (without their bodies) enter a heart when the Spirit is received.

My! God and the Son in us – whew! This truly is a love story. The realization that “both of them (without their bodies) enter a heart when the Spirit is received” exposes the Trinity of Christianity to be as cold and dead as it really is.

********************************************

This is another part that touched me:

So, according to Jesus’ own words, the people knew him and his Father, and they did not know him and his Father; and they knew where he came from, and they did not know where he came from. So, what can we say about this, except that the people were confused, and they were not confused? They knew what they thought, but what they thought they knew was only half right. Jesus understood their predicament. And he loved them.

I melted when I read this part because He is still loving us this way.

********************************************

I feel like you did in that Monday night meeting when you said, “Why can’t I stop?” The sweet feelings of LIFE just go on and on. There is no stopping eternal life! Your message just keeps stirring LIFE, and that is why I love what you wrote here, too:

The life of the Son is the Spirit of his Father, and when the Spirit came from heaven in the form of a dove, it was the Son himself coming from heaven, leaving his heavenly body and home behind. There on the banks of the Jordan, the Son of God, the “life-giving spirit” from heaven, entered the human body prepared for him by his Father.

My, my! I had never thought of it this way - - “. . . and when the Spirit came from heaven in the form of a dove, it was the Son himself coming from heaven, . . .”

Bro. John, this is not from the marketplace! Whew! And every word you have written tastes so very good – again and again!

********************************************

Well, I will try to stop here with something sweet the Lord showed me right after I read what you sent today.

As I sat in my chair drinking in what I had just read, I looked out my window onto the pond and saw a very peaceful family of geese. At the front of the line was one adult goose, in the middle were five furry, brand-new, tiny young goslings, and at the rear, watching very protectively, was the other adult goose. As I watched them gliding across the pond in a very orderly line, I felt the love of God in what I saw. It was a perfect picture of the Father and the Son and us in the middle being protected from the world. As I watched them, I was reminded of the verse in Psalms: “Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.”

Thank you for sending us this good food today.

See you soon,

Sandy

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4/28/09

Hi John,

The latest chapter on God had a Son is one of the best things I have ever read.  I have read it several times now, and each time, I see something new. Today I was thinking about what Sandy said in her comments, “…exposes the Trinity of Christianity to be as cold and dead as it really is.” Satan does everything with a purpose. The doctrine of the Trinity, as Sandy said, is cold, and it keeps God’s people from experiencing the love between the Father and Son. It is void of feelings by someone’s design.

I was taught, growing up, that the triune God was a mystery not meant to be understood and that it must be taken by faith. I remember one Pentecost Sunday, the Catholic priest presiding over the service that day started his sermon by saying something like this, “Today is the feast of Pentecost. A feast to celebrate the holy Spirit – the mysterious third person of the Godhead.” He turned and looked at me as he said it because he knew that I believed in the baptism of the holy Ghost and attended Charismatic prayer meetings.

This morning, as I was thinking about this, I realized that the mystery itself has been elevated to a level of holiness among Christians.  This is a very cunning tactic because to question something that has been deemed holy is forbidden. Wow, what mercy Jesus has shown us! If it were not for his mercy, I would still be believing and living a lie.

Thank you, John, for taking the time to share the things you have been given. I pray for the strength and humility to be able to share these things with others, if given the opportunity.

Tom

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Hi Tom.

I am glad Jesus rescued you and your family from that loveless doctrine and lifeless religion. He will rescue everyone who will break down and admit that they want to be loved!

jdc

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4/29/09

Hi Pastor John,

I have really enjoyed all the e-mails on God Had a Son Before Mary Did. We are having thoughts and feelings from God that we have never had before. John, He is revealing a mystery that this generation has not heard of, that I know of, anyway. It is food for the soul. I feel like we are at the beginning of a time where God’s people are starting to ask questions about what they are doing and what they believe.

Even if they do not understand what is going on, God is teaching all His children about His Son. I am so thankful for Brother Jake and how God used him to get you to teach us this wonderful mystery on God Had a Son Before Mary Did when he asked you to teach on the Trinity Study at his home. My, my, what an honor it was to be in his home with you and all the other saints who were there.

I really loved what we heard on the Old Meeting CD that we listened to on Thursday morning at your home, when your father was preaching, “Are we going to follow a man or are we going to follow the truth?” The truth is the only thing that is going to make it through the fire that is coming on this world. Men will fail and will cause some to stumble, but the truth is the way out of it all. Thank you, John, for telling us the truth as God reveals it to you.

Brother Stuart

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5/4/09

Good morning Pastor John,

I had a thought, and then a question-and-answer moment as I was walking out to the shop to get on the lawn mower.  I say “a moment” because it happened so quickly.  The thought was “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Spirit”. The next thought was a question, “What is the love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Spirit”? The answer I heard is, “The love of God that is shed abroad in hearts is God’s love for the Son.”

I went on talking to the Lord and said, “If you want me to tell this, you have to give me more.” Then I had these thoughts of what I have heard you say.  “The Father loves His Son more than anything in Creation.” We are given the love the Father has for His Son when we repent and receive the Son’s baptism of holy Ghost. The Father gave His Son power to baptize with the holy Ghost because He loved the Son, and the Son baptizes us with the holy Ghost because he loves us and wants us to be one with the Father as he is one with the Father.  It’s just a love story, all the way around.

Bro. Randell

==========

That is so good! When we receive God’s Spirit, we have His feelings.  As you said, the happiest person on Pentecost morning was the Father, although people only saw the disciples rejoicing. Well, they had received God’s life and were now feeling what He was feeling for the first time ever...so of course they were rejoicing! And because we feel God’s feelings when we have the holy Spirit, we feel His love for His Son, above everything around us, everything in the whole creation. The Son comes first! That is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Spirit, the love for the Son! Oh, I love it!

Token E

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6/15/09

Hi Pastor John:

In chapter one of your book, God Had a Son Before Mary Did, on page 4, you have Colossians 1:18, which states that “he [the word] is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead.”

Did that “firstborn” of the dead happen when the “Spirit” descended on Jesus when he was baptized by John, or... was that when he was raised from the dead and ascended in the cloud back to the Father?

Thank you,

Bro. Billy M

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Brother Billy,

The scripture from Colossians 1:18 is referring to Jesus’ resurrection.

jdc

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6/16/09

Thank you for sending the book God Had a Son Before Mary Did.  I’ve been reading it this morning (I’ve got an extra day off this week) and I’m loving it.  You know what I love about the truth? ... it’s true!  (ha!)  It just rings true in my heart, and I go “aaaah”!!!  I’m feeling very thankful for it.  Thank you, Lord! Amen!  Man, it’s just so good, and true, mmm :)

Okay, I better go.

Jenny

==========

I’m glad you are enjoying the book. The truth is sweet to those who love it. Pray for us that we will finish the work God has given us to do.

jdc

==========

7/23/09

Pastor John,

I have a new question that was asked me by a Christian with whom I was discussing the Trinity, and I mentioned your book on the Father and the Son.

If Jesus, the Son, is God’s creation, how could he have been “with God,” from the very, very beginning? If the Word (the Son) existed from the “beginning,” does that not imply a co-eternal existence – the same as God, the Father?

Brad

=========

Hi Brad:

The Son of God was not only with the Father in the “very, very beginning”; he was the very, very beginning of the creation of God. He himself said so (Rev. 3:14). Does your friend not know that God had no beginning? The Father existed before the beginning; that is He existed before the Beginning (the Son) was created. No matter how many “very’s” one puts in front of “beginning”, that still holds true.

Pastor John

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10/13/09

Hi Pastor John,

I have been chewing on what we read about the Father and the Son when you came up this week. The word that keeps coming to my mind to describe what we read is “profound”; that is, having intellectual depth and insight, insight into something that is so simple that even a fool would not err. “Profound” in that this book gives more insight on what God did with His Son and what His Son did for us.

John, this book to me is one of the best that you have written, and I know it is not done yet, but what we have read so far is so clear and simple. And when I say profound, this book is going to be profound for all God’s people when He opens their eyes to see Him as he is. I can’t wait to read the other chapters that are as yet undone. When you went back and re-arranged some things in chapter 3, it changed the whole flow and feel of it. It flowed so smooth and easy and felt so sweet that I know that God is guiding you and leading you with how He wants this book to be. I get so excited about what you are saying and writing that I want everybody to hear and read it right now. I am going to have to be a little more patient in myself, and it will come in time. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Stuart

==========

10/18/09

The Son is everything:

Pastor John

I heard just enough of your message on Skype today to feel this way!!! It was wonderful. (I am listening to Oral Roberts’ message on “The Fourth Man” right now.) I just feel in LOVE with the Father and Son. It’s like when you first start having feelings for someone and are just getting to know them, that’s how I am feeling right now. And then to think they always had those feelings for you is really ... WOW!!! It makes me want to read the whole Old Testament again!! THANK YOU SOOO MUCH!!! For feeding us.

Jammie

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Thank YOU for eating!

Pastor John

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10/21/09

Subject: Isaiah’s word, nazaroth

John,

I was looking for a vocabulary list for just the book of Isaiah today and came across this page.

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/nazer2.htm#nazar1:8

It discusses Isaiah’s use of a word natser

Here is one section of the document.  I know people can get carried away with this, but it struck me as at least interesting.  I had to enlarge the Hebrew text image so it’s a bit fuzzy.  Some of what he writes seems a little stretched, but my Hebrew is very limited, so it is hard for me to comment. Makes me want to keep reading Isaiah for sure.

5. Isaiah 48:6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shown thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

6. shama’ta chazeh kulah ve-atem ha-lo’ tagiydu. hishma’atiyka chadashoth u-netsaroth ve-lo’ yeda’tam.

“Nazareth is literally named in this extraordinary passage.  “Nazuroth is translated “hidden things” in the KJV.  The context has God telling us that He will tell things that they do not suspect but that after they happen, you will know that He is able to show the future.  He says ‘I have shown you new things, even Nazareth.’”

What an incredible verse! It had to be in the mind of Matthew when he penned the words in Matt. 2:23.

Damien

=========

Damien:

We will doubtless be astonished (if we aren’t already) at the extraordinary things God spoke through the prophets, as we find them and finally see them the way God was really meaning them at the time. It is SO exciting to think of discovering these things. If I had seen the Father and the Son message in my earlier years as I see it now, I probably would have concentrated on Hebrew instead of Greek. Reading the OT now is like being on a search for gold in the mountains. Have we yet found the “mother load”?

jdc

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11/22/09

John,

How about this? I was looking up scriptures on “the Son of God” and found this one.

1John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the Devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the Devil.

So, Token and I did some research and looked up the word “manifested” in the Oxford English Dictionary, and it said – “to reveal itself as existing or operative”.  The Son was “manifested” so that we would know he existed and was operating in Creation!

How many things are we going to find as we go through the Bible, now that the Lord has opened our eyes to the truth about the Father and the Son, things that have been there the whole time and we didn’t know what they meant, or at least the extent of it? It’s exciting to think about them, and all this reminds me of a scripture which is my favorite:

“Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” – Philippians 4:8

These things are altogether lovely to me! 8-)

Amy

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11/22/09

Hey Pastor John!

I have a question about what we were reading today. Since we know that Paradise was taken up into heaven after Jesus went to the heart of the earth and preached to the folks in Paradise, I have 2 questions: 1) When did Paradise get taken up?  After Satan and his angels were cast out?  Wasn’t that the point of keeping them in the heart of the earth, to keep them away from Satan?

==========

If he “took captivity captive” the same day he ascended into heaven, they were kept in a safe place until he cleansed heaven.

The precise time has not been revealed, just that it happened, and Jesus did it.

==========

2) Didn’t something have to happen to the people in Paradise so they could go up? I mean did the receive the holy Ghost?

==========

No. They could have been taken up without that, if God wanted it. We are not told what happened about them receiving the Spirit, whether they received it then or if they will have to wait until the resurrection.

==========

Didn’t Jesus have to have a glorified body to go up into the 3rd Heaven?

==========

Being glorified WAS entering the third heaven.

==========

That’s really 6 questions....but two major points to the questions :-)

Thanks!!!

Ashley

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11/23/09

Subject: the Devil and Satan

Hey!

John 3:8: “He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the Devil sinneth from the beginning.  For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the Devil.”

This is the scripture Amy wrote about when she told you that we were looking up the word “manifest” (and it was so good!) But we did have a discussion about the first part of that verse.  Amy asked, if everyone who commits sin is of the Devil, then does that go with us all being in sin from the day we are born? We concluded that it was referring to the Garden of Eden where the Devil played his part in the fall of man in the first place. Then I said that the part of the verse which says, “because the Devil sinned from the beginning” could mean that the Devil sinned from the beginning of MAN’s creation, not his own beginning. I’ve never read it or thought of it that way, but why not? Maybe there is some gold there?

te

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Hi Token.

I have wondered at times if Satan had sinned before the scene with Eve in the garden of Eden, but I have never found an answer to that question in the Bible.  I suppose that we’ll just have to wait and ask Jesus about that one.

Love,

Daddy

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Father and Son Emails – 2010

2/20/10

John:

God was correct, I know, but why did He choose to hide the Son? Was it so the Son could learn how to deal with every situation by acting the way the Father acted? So other creatures in heaven and earth could revere and respect him as they do the Father (being as He was going to put the Son on the throne)?  Was it because God was searching for a way to reveal Himself? Was it for us to see what a wonderful Father He was by revealing his Son?

God, help me love your Son the way you want me to!

Wendell

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Hi Wendell:

I am not sure if anyone can answer that question fully. But the answer must include at least one of the reasons you mentioned; namely, that the Father knew the best way to reveal Himself was by hiding the Son until the appointed time, and then revealing him in Jesus Christ.

Ah, the wisdom of God! His ways are indeed “past finding out”. But His ways are not impossible for Him to reveal when He chooses to reveal them! Thank God that He revealed Himself to us in the Son. What an awesome God He is!

jdc

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Nov 18, 2010

Subject: net mail - the Son of God

Good morning John,

How can we not say “thank you” to Jesus for last night? I don’t know that I have ever felt such a love for the Son of God as I felt last night. That was absolutely the greatest message on the “Son” I have ever heard. I think that would have been what the Jews would have heard from Paul as he traveled to their synagogues and such... whew, a knockout.

It went very deep last night. The parts about Jesus being greater than all the Jews’ heroes, and the part about getting rid of our “dis-ease” really touched my soul. Jesus wants to take away ANY dis-ease we may have!  Oh that was so real! I lay in bed last night talking to the Son, in words, and in tongues. At ease. Resting in him. Loving Him. I could feel him so near.

One of my favorite things I felt last night, though, was the love Jesus was letting me feel in my heart towards you, John, for getting this to us. I loved the kind of love that you have for us. I felt it from the beginning to the end of your message, and then throughout the praying time. Anyone who would help us to understand the real love of the Son, loves us just like the Father and the Son love us. I felt safe, and thankful, and that the Father really did care for me, as I have never felt it before.

“Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son...” Oh, If we can only get that truth about the Son that we felt to God’s people. They could be comforted, and refreshed, as we were. I feel washed.

Gary

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Father and Son Emails – 2011

2/20/11

Bro. John:

Since reading God Had A Son Before Mary Did, the very first time at the beach, this book has felt special. And it feels like it is very special to God, too. It is so full of love – love between the Father and Son, and their love for us.

Last night, I had a short dream:

I dreamed we were getting ready to read a chapter of the book, just like last night. Before passing out the copies to read, you very soberly said to us:

“This is not going to be for everybody.”

“You are not going to save the world.”

“This is going to require getting into your prayer closets.”

Bro. John, we sure need God. For Him to send a dream with instructions, He knows this book and its message is very special for the hearts of His people.

Sandy

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2/20/11

The Father and The Son – Chapter 3

John, this is pretty amazing stuff . . . when you get down to the nitty gritty and dissect the meanings of the different kinds of LIFE. . . ! I am praising God as I’m reading it, with awe, asking the proverbial question, “Why me?” Why did God see fit to give me a little piece of his life? Whew! Makes you feel the depth and breadth of His love for us – and for all mankind f they would only repent and receive this kind of “divine life.”

There’s nowhere to go except to Humble Town. Just humble down to Humble Town. :^)

I feel so small, and insignificant. . . and yet, so loved; so significant. Wow. It’s intense.

Thank you for writing --- and re-writing all of this.

I just love it.

It’s made my day.

Brad

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Thanks, Brad! I am so glad that you were blessed by Chapter Two. Please pray that the Lord will help us complete this book in good order. I hope to go to Louisville next weekend and re-read it, and maybe Chapter Three as well, with the people there.

jdc

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2/21/11

Hi Bro. John:

After you answered my question today concerning Hebrews 11’s reference to Moses, I thought I would send it on to you just in case you might want to consider it for any portion of the Father and Son book. I found it very interesting when I read it, and your answer was so good to me!

“By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt, for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.”

When I read “esteeming the reproach of Christ” in this verse, I remembered you telling us that the Son of God was hidden and was a complete mystery to the OT people. They knew nothing about him. So, I wondered how Moses could have “esteemed the reproach of Christ greater” if he did not know about the Son of God at all. Your answer was so good to me: Moses loved God; therefore, he loved the Son even though he did not know about him. That is so sweet to me!

Well, thank you for the answer today. It is wonderful to think on these things -- rich feelings!

Sandy :)

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3/9/11

Hi John,

I really loved the beginning of chapter 4.  The two scriptures at the beginning from Isaiah just took my breath away:

“I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, so that you may know that I, the LORD, who calls you by your name, am the God of Israel – Isaiah 45:3.

I have put my words in your mouth, but I covered you in the shadow of my hand, that you might plant the heavens, and lay the foundation of the earth, and say to Zion, “You are my people –Isaiah 51:16.”

How great is our God! He gave all of this to His Son so He could share their life with us and have us here, at this point in history, to understand what He did with His Son. Wow, what a wonderful place to be in! God, help us to be worthy to continue finding out the secret thing that you have hidden right in front of us!

He is never-ending, and His thoughts are not our thoughts – unless He gives them to us, to think like Him and learn more about Him. I can’t wait to see when this book gets published and reaches the hands of some of God’s people.  “You are my people!” That is what the Son is saying to us, and to all who truly love him.

Stuart

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3/13/11

Chapter 6 – All Wisdom and Knowledge

Last night was soooo good! But it was way more than my brain could take in all at once. I did get enough to know I’m terrified of being one of those deceived fools. I pray that God will help me to be worthy to stand with the saints in the end. Please pray for me! I will have to read this more than once to comprehend all that is there. Thanks for coming and sharing what God is doing. I love it. Have a good night.

Love,

Tina

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3/13/11

Chapter 6

Shew! Thank you so much, John! I can’t believe it!

Paul C

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3/15/11

I thought during the reading the other night, “When you have God’s kind of life, you are not always going around saying ‘I don’t understand.’” God’s kind of life causes us to understand! I can’t always explain to someone why. I just have to [follow Jesus]!! And that’s why some fall away from Jesus. They never grow into the understanding that is in God’s kind of life!

Jammie C

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3/18/11

Chapter 6

Shewee.... I am pretty sure you will make some changes, but this is something! The stories, examples, and just the thoughts we are left with. You can really go somewhere.

Hopefully, you can find a place for what you said about “bowing down”. I think that shows the difference between Satan asking for respect as opposed to holy men of God feeling the glory of heavenly beings and bowing automatically because of the glory they felt in their presence. Satan didn’t have it; therefore, he had to ask for it. Reading it tonight, there were some places where I felt a hatred or anger, so to speak, toward Satan and what he is doing to God’s people now. He is a pitiful creature still seeking to be worshiped, and so many people are being deceived. How foolish are they going to feel on that day when they find out they were fooled? Jesus doesn’t ask for much, if anything, he is pleading more for us to ask of him. It sure made me thankful to feel what I feel, to see what I see, and to hear what I hear in Spirit!  And I pray to be among that number that are allowed to sing on the crystal sea and dance with the Son. Makes me want to “kiss the Son (every day!), lest he be angry”

Going to bed...

Amy B

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3/20/11

John,

Hey. I wanted to tell you about one more thing from the weekend that was good to me.  There were many things, of course, but when someone asked about whether God sent the serpent to Eve, your answer dispelled a wrong idea that I had.  When the question was first asked, I wasn’t sure, but I didn’t think God would have done that to Eve (I don’t know why I thought that), but then you answered it, and I thought, “Well, yes, He would test her, for whatever His own reasons are. And so, likewise, He will test us.” What that did was encourage me to look at things that come up that seem to be “bad” as tests from the Lord. And that was encouraging and exciting to me. John, I know that you have taught us these things, but still, God is helping me to see it more. I am very thankful for that!

Lyn

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3/21/11

Pastor John,

Actually who was Melchizedek? What did GOD mean when HE said Melchizedek was the image of the holy Ghost?

LF

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God never said that, LF.  At least, it isn’t in the Bible. Melchizedek was just a man who served as a priest to God in very ancient time.

jdc

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Pastor John

I feel you didn’t understand my question. Please help me understand. I will try to explain myself better.

In Hebrews 7:3, Paul says that Melchizedek was without father or mother. The Most High God is the Father of Jesus (Luke 1:32). But, God WAS NOT the father of Melchizedek. Paul is clearly saying that Melchizedek, like the Most High God, was without parents. Neither of them had beginning of days nor end of life. The two of them had always lived and there had never been a time that each of them had not lived. Melchizedek had always possessed life inherent. Life was not given to Him, He was not anyone’s son.

“You are My Son, today I have begotten You.” As He also says in another place: “You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek . . .” (Hebrews 5:5-6, NKJV).

“Then, as they were afraid and bowed their faces to the earth, they said to them, ‘Why do you seek the living among the dead?’” (Luke 24:1-5, NKJV). Melchizedek is He who lives.

What is this saying? Jesus was Melchizedek in the beginning, and when he was born of Mary he became the Son of God in the order of Melchizedek who had to be preeminent in righteousness. He had to be the “king” of righteousness.

Malachi said that the Sun of Righteousness would arise with healing in His wings (Malachi 4:2). Malachi was precluded from using the word “son” because that would have implied that the One who became Jesus was someone other than Melchizedek. The term “Son” would have suggested that Jesus was in some way a son or a descendant of Melchizedek. Actually, the prophetic Sun of Righteousness and the King of Righteousness is the same person, Jesus Christ. Malachi said the Sun of Righteous would arise, and he meant that in a literal sense. Christ will descend from the sky, but before He descends, He will have to ascend (see Psalm 82:8).

Am I even more confused? Please help me understand!

LF

==========

Thank you for writing back.

First, Jesus was not Melchizedek. Melchizedek was just a man, possibly the greatest character who ever lived before Jesus, according to Hebrews 7:6-7.  He was probably a Canaanite, but at any rate, he was human. He had both a father and a mother; there was just no historical record of them. The author of Hebrews was not saying Melchizedek was non-human. He was simply using the priesthood of Melchizedek as a pattern for the priesthood of Jesus. As far as the priesthood was concerned, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Mary, was “without father or mother”, too. One’s genealogical record was of extreme importance under the law.  If a priest lost the record of his genealogy so that he could no longer prove on paper that he descended from Aaron, he was kicked out of the priesthood. This happened to a family of priests after the Babylonian captivity.  Certain of the priests had lost the record of their ancestry, and “these sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood” (Ezra 2:62; Neh. 7:64).

In pointing out that there is no historical record of Melchizedek’s birth or death, the author of Hebrews is simply using the lack of historical priestly records to make another point. Melchizedek was born, and he did die; we just don’t have any record of when or where. In that way, he is, in a figure, like the Son of God; that is, there is no historical record of when Melchizedek came into existence or when his existence ended.

In the phrase, “he who lives”, from Hebrews 7:8, Melchizedek is not the one being referred to. “He who lives” is Jesus Christ. He now receives the tithes that God’s children bring to men on earth if they bring their tithes to a man anointed by God to minister heavenly things to them and to receive those tithes.

For centuries, from every theological direction, there have been mountains made out of the mole hill that we find in Hebrews 7 concerning Melchizedek. He was a very great man, but he was human. He was not an angel; nor was he the Son of God. You can forget what you have been previously taught about Melchizedek, and you need not fear that you will displease the Lord by doing so.

I hope my explanation helps.  Thanks again for writing. God bless.

Pastor John

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3/21/11

“For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment” (Jas. 2:13 ESV).

I always thought that God won’t let Satan repent because he had committed some act of sin too bad to go backwards (like Judas). Not sure where I got that idea. This verse seems to add another layer to it; God doesn’t have mercy on Satan because he shows no mercy to others.

Bekah

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It’s probably some of both. We know that “to whom much is given, much is required” (Lk. 12:48), and those who sin after having a certain amount of knowledge and experience may find themselves in a position of having no further means of obtaining forgiveness (Heb. 10:26). Any sin can be an “unpardonable sin” if it is committed by someone so close to God, as Satan once was, that he knew or should have known better. But it is always God’s call as to when that happens because only God knows the heart.

Satan’s merciless judgment and prosecution of others certainly played a huge role in the merciless judgment he has received from God.

Good point!

Daddy

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3/21/11

Hi John,
I have really enjoyed going over the Father and Son book again, I am so thankful that we have been allowed to understand some of the things that the Father has done with His Son. It seems like the more we learn about the Son, the more things open up for us to know and feel about our Father.

It is astonishing how much He really loves us and cares about what we know about Him. He wants us to know Him more than we can even imagine. One thing that really stuck out to me yesterday in the reading, John, was how everything in heaven was tried. There was not one being in heaven whose heart was not put through a trial or test to see what they really wanted, while Satan and his angels were there.

Even God’s Son went through the Temptation in the wilderness, to see what he really wanted, and he wanted to be with his Father and to make a way for us to do the same.

I like what you said about the Son. He may have not known just what was going on with Satan in heaven. I am sure he felt something was not right with him, but the Father may have been keeping some things about Satan to himself at that time.

It would make more sense about what the Son went through in the wilderness if he was just learning how evil and wrong it was for what Satan had been doing all of the time he was in heaven, and why he may have felt that way at times about Satan. John, I just assumed or thought that the Son knew, since he created Satan, just what Satan was and how evil he had become. Wow. God’s thoughts are above my thoughts, and God’s understanding is above my understanding! May God help me keep my mind and my thoughts open, and free of any wrong ideas about Him! I know it will take Him to do it, and His loving correction to change any wrong thought about Him that we may have. And I know if we keep Him first, He will show us everything we need to know.

Thank you John.

Stuart

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Thanks, Stuart. You may have been right, you know. The Son may have known everything about Satan all along. But the point was, we just don’t know, and there are some scriptures that make a lot of sense if he didn’t know, at that time.

jdc

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3/21/11

Hi John,

I agree with Stuart that other scriptures make more sense if in fact Jesus was not aware of Satan’s wickedness prior to the Temptation. However, as you also said, Jesus may have known but humbled himself for forty days to the Temptations of that wicked creature. Either way, it is very thought-provoking. Jesus was very humble in either case.

Another thought I had was that Satan uses Christianity (Xty) to hide who he really is from men on earth, just as God hid who He really is from Satan in heaven. I can’t describe how thankful I am to be called out of Christianity.  Otherwise, I would still be lost in confusion. Thank you, John, for all the hard work and prayer you have put into this book. It will probably take a long time to realize the full extent of what Jesus has given us.

Tom

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3/21/11

Subject: The last line of chapter 6:

Your statement , paraphrasing 2nd Peter 3:13, is staggering to me. . . . What kinds of beings will exists then? . . . in that new earth? And why did God even bother to create this present world, let it run its course, only to destroy it in order to create a new heaven and earth? That is incomprehensible. A world of “perfect righteousness, peace and joy.” Whoooeeee. His ways are beyond our imagining.

Brad

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3/22/11

Hey,

Thank you for this past weekend. The love and the work that was put into preparing that for us are special. When you said that you didn’t want us to leave, it felt so right, just like I was feeling :) Thank you for lunch and the extra time to be with everyone.

One statement that you made yesterday felt really good. It was this, “The Temptation of Jesus was not an attack by the Devil. It was an opportunity for Christ to take full control of that fleshly body!” :) Feels good repeating it, too! :) I love that.

Today I was thinking about when I first read the Gospel of John. It was only a few months after Haskell received the holy Ghost. I was very surprised and hurt when I read the verse stating that Jesus was slapped in the face when he was on trial. I remember feeling very hurt for Jesus, and I remember his humility. They made me cry. Christ did take full control of that body in the wilderness. There was nothing in his heart like Satan, who wanted to be worshiped or recognized for his power. Jesus created the men who slapped him, and yet he remained humble! Jesus knew his power came from his Father and he loved and trusted his Father. That is so good!

Thank you again.

Cris

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3/22/11

I am so much enjoying this Father and Son book! Paul and I were talking this morning. He said, “Can you imagine what it would be like if Satan had rule, as people think he does? It wouldn’t be about drinking and smoking and all that stuff people think is him. He would judge us to death.” Wow!!

Jammie

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3/25/11

Hi Pastor John,

I’ve been thinking about chapter 6 of the Father and Son book – there is too much there to take in at one sitting, but it felt so good going over it last weekend. As you mentioned on Wednesday night, it really seems almost preposterous to even attempt to contain an account of the revelation of God and His Son in a single book. The content of the book, so far, is so meaty and full that if God’s people out there read it – I mean really read it and humble themselves to it and to Jesus – it is going to change them, and try them. I know it’s probably going to be a long time before it is finished, but I can hardly wait to see what God does with it. Maybe it’s not even meant for this generation. Is there even anyone out there now who can take in some of the things Jesus has been showing you in this work? It seems that God’s people can hardly take in just the basic milk of the New Birth. Well, God knows, and that’s His business!

Anyway, I had just a couple questions as I was reading back over chapter 6:

Regarding the part on “wheat and tares in heaven”: How is it that God would allow sin in His presence, if “sin can never enter there”? Could it be that in heaven (before the Son was revealed), when angels, cherubim, Satan, and other heavenly beings were speaking with God, that they were actually speaking to God through an “Angel of the Lord”, similar to how God spoke to men on earth? It just doesn’t seem possible that evil-hearted beings could possibly be in the very presence of God, and that perhaps God was in His own “upper chamber” of heaven (so to speak) until heaven was purged.

==========

Oh, we need not be concerned that God will be polluted. The prophet Habakkuk felt the way you felt, and said to God, “Your eyes are too pure to look at sin!” (1:13a), but then he asked, “Why do you do it?” (1:13b).

As you know, Vince, ”Sin Can Never Enter There” is the name of a song, but it was not a law that was always in place in heaven. It has, however, become the law of heaven since the Son was revealed and took his place at the Father’s right hand and set all things, everywhere, in order.

The Psalmist said that God condescends to even look at things in both heaven and earth (Ps. 113:6), and it is said that “the heavens are unclean in His sight” (Job 15:15).  And since we know that when the Father glorified the Son, He “made him higher than the heavens” (Heb. 7:26), there must be somewhere beyond heaven where God dwells. After all, He must have been living somewhere before the Son created these heavens and this earth, right?

==========

Is the heaven that exists now (the one that was purged and now includes paradise) going to be destroyed and a new heaven created at the same time the new earth is created (Rev. 21:1)? Or is it the new heaven now?

==========

No, this is not the new heaven that John saw in Revelation 21. This is the one that will be destroyed, as Peter said in 2Peter 3.

==========

And if it’s not now the new heaven, what is wrong with it that God still plans to destroy it (seeing that now there is no evil there)?

==========

Sorry. That’s not my department. :)

==========

My next question is, what exactly is a throne? I’m thinking particularly about thrones in heaven. I know that John saw physical thrones in heaven, (and they even live and speak!) but what are they? Do they simply represent a position of power and authority or are they something more?

I think that’s all for now. Thank you,

Vince

==========

Of course, the word “throne” can be symbolically used, but what John saw was real, and the thrones he saw represented some kind of authority that he did not explain, and may not have been told. Beyond that, all we can do is wait and see what we see when we see Jesus! Then, we will not only understand the things you mention, we will also learn whether or not the “thrones” we receive when we reign with Jesus (Rev. 20:4) are symbolic or real. Either way, we are going to be happy.

Good hearing from you, brother Vince!

jdc

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4/15/11

Pastor John,

In case I haven’t told you, I am loving this Father and Son book. It is changing us! This morning, I was praying, “God I just want to get over me, and my flesh, to able to do good for people who don’t know what we have gotten to hear. Most of the things in our lives that we deal with are just our own flesh.  We have got to get past that to really do some good. Paul and I talked about Job and how he was a perfect man (without God’s life).  Then, where are we? I am not saying this in a discouraged way.  I feel like it is a call to move up. We are learning this for some reason, even if it’s just to live a cleaner life. Well just wanted to thank you again.

Jammie

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4/15/11

Pastor John,

I have been reading the Father and Son book. I was just wondering. Do you think that God forgave Judas for betraying Jesus? Is it possible that he could have done that? Thanks.

MG

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Judas? No. Jesus said it would have been better for Judas never to have been born.

Pastor John

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Thank you, John. I figured Judas repented when he gave the money back, and so, maybe God forgave him.

MG

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God alone grants genuine repentance, and he always forgives those to whom He grants that repentance. A person can “repent” in the flesh as much as he can baptize in the flesh. But God rejects all fleshly worship. Judas’ repentance was not of God; he just realized what a fool he had been. There was no mercy from God available for Judas.

jdc

==========

I understand. Thanks again.

MG

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4/16/11

Pastor John

Since Wednesday night, I’ve been thinking about Job as well, in particular this verse. “Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” The question I have asked is, repent of what? He had not done anything. He was just human, and he saw or caught a glimpse of something so much greater –maybe the righteousness of God – and he could not (without the Spirit) humble himself far enough in response.

I have also been thinking about the various abilities to do things that we all have. Doing anything is nothing. What is going on in the heart while you’re doing what you are doing is the question. The flesh loves making a “fair show” of itself. It makes me pull back and consider whatever I am doing, and pray God that there is nothing of me in there.

These things are so good to consider but there is always goodness and severity to behold.

Damien

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Hi Damien.

What Job was feeling, neither he nor anyone else could see and understand until the Son of God came to reveal it to us. It was God’s kind of life. Job was already “a perfect and an upright man.” God said so. But what overwhelmed him in the end was a glimpse of a kind of rightesouness that is beyond perfection. God can rebuke even the most perfect man on earth because “the foolishness of God is wiser than man” and “the weakness of God is stronger than man.”

Oh no! I think I just said something that I want to add to the Father and Son book!

jdc

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4/16/11

I think the Spirit that was on Job to say, “I abhor myself and repent”, is the same Spirit that was in Jesus when he said, “I am a worm, and no man”. Both were such upright men, but I think that when we get close to God, John, that’s how we feel, no matter how perfectly we are doing anything. There’s an element of safety in those feelings.

What Damien said here, “What’s going in the heart while we are doing what we are doing?” is a very penetrating question. Reminds me of some of the things in Chapter 6, and the “work” that Satan was doing in heaven – and why he was doing it... and God never said a word.

I am thankful God IS talking to us, and preparing us through this Father and Son book. He really loves us.

Gary

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4/16/11

Hi John,

I don’t know where to start, I have had so many new thoughts and feelings about what the Father did with his Son and what the Son did for us when he came down and secured a way for us to live forever. And all of it is because the Father wanted it to be so for us and His Son.

One thing that I really love about what God and His Son have done with us is how that, when He reveals something to us about Himself and the Son, it redefines everything around us. It helps us to understand how He feels about everything, and every creature that He created.  It exposes the truth about everything.

I am just thinking about how much light He has shown us about His Son, and how much was not known during Old Testament times, on earth or in heaven. It gives a whole new meaning to the scripture in Matthew 6:10: “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.” (After the Son returned and was accepted of the Father of course.)  Wow. We are so blessed. The more we learn about the Father and the Son, the more it reveals about what is godly and what is evil

What we have learned about Satan and the spirit of Satan through what God has revealed to you with this Father and Son book is astonishing, John. No books can tell what has been opened up to you and to us. No wonder this book keeps growing. His knowledge and wisdom are endless, and I thank you for coming and taking the time to teach us what He is showing you. What an honor it is to be living during this time and to gather together with such wonderful people as God has put us with! Thank you Jesus!

Stuart

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3/20/11

Hi Pastor John,

I am writing this down while watching you, live, on the internet.  I am doing that I will not forget this.  I think it is remarkable that when other angels revealed themselves throughout the Old Testament and in Revelation, that the angels told the ones to whom they were sent not to bow down to them because they were also their fellow servants – but during the Temptation, Satan wanted Jesus to bow down and worship him as God. He had no fear of saying those things to Jesus.

Billy M

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That is because Satan was sure that God thought he was as wonderful as he thought he was. May God save us from assuming wrong things when He is merely being patient with our foolishness.

jdc

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4/24/11

Hi John,

We really enjoyed hearing Chapter 6 tonight on the web, with the changes you have made. It just gets better and better. We really appreciate Josiah sending us the link to Justin TV so we could see it. When you all read again and broadcast it, please text us.

I have a question about 2Samuel 19:21-22.  It is under the section “Satan and the Sons of Zeruiah.” In verse 22, your translation says, ”. . . that you should act like Satan on my behalf today.”

The conversation was in heaven between God and Satan about Job, the trial Zechariah saw about Josiah the high priest was in heaven, and Satan was working with God in heaven to provoke David to number Israel – without any of them knowing that God and Satan were having those conversations. So, how could David on earth know to use Satan as the example of adversaries, as in your translation of verse 22?

With what we know today, I think Satan was an excellent choice, but how would David have known to use Satan as a comparison for the sons of Zeruiah, the way you translated that verse?

Randell

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Good question, Brother Randell.

Men knew the story of Job, in David’s time. But what we have in the Bible is just a tiny portion of what David and others knew, both from other, lost stories and from prophets, besides their own contact with God. David had plenty to go on. He could have said that to Abishai just that way.

jdc

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4/24/11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan

This article tells the Job story the same way you do! And it also says that "the Satan/the Adversary" is a title, not a name.

Also it says that Rabbis saw Satan’s job was to tempt us and then persecute us. And that they felt sorry for him.

TE

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Yeah, my OT professor also chose to say “the Satan” and not “Satan” because it is a title not a name. I wasn’t sure what to do with that when he taught it, actually, so I just shelved it. But maybe he had a good point. Interesting thing about the Rabbis – wonder if it’s accurate.

Bekah

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For your professor to say that “Satan” is not a name because it has the word “the” in front of it is surprising. He must know that names regularly have “the” in front of them, in both the Hebrew and Greek texts.

Recently, for the Iron Kingdom book, I read a book titled, Everyman’s Talmud. It is a summation, with hundreds of references, of commentaries by famous Rabbis, from the past eighteen hundred years or so, on various subjects. I have never read such a collection of weird thoughts, not even in Christian or Greek mythology. “Bizarre” does not adequately describe some of the things that famous Jewish Rabbis have taught. “Insane” comes close, but that also comes short. How anyone could follow a religion like that is explained by only one thing: being turned over to it by God. No sinner with a grain of common sense could believe many of the things Rabbis teach, or have taught, in the Talmud, including some truly wacky things they say about Satan.

You can safely ignore the Rabbis. They are cursed and blinded teachers of a cursed and blinded people.

jdc

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Under “Talmud and other rabbinic sources” this article contains claims but no references to actual quotes. I’m surprised no one has picked that up on Wikipedia.

Looking around I found this http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=270&letter=S

which contains much reference to Apocrypha and some right thoughts mixed with junk.

I did find that the Septuagint uses diabolos, the NT term. That is surprising if the standard history of the LXX is accepted.

Damien

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It would be interesting to truly know where the Septuagint came from, and when. The myth of its supernatural origin became so popular that it became all that was known. And the guesswork from scholars that followed has revealed nothing.

What you found in that article is what I found in Everyman’s Talmud. Some ordinary stuff mixed with some of the weirdest “junk” I have ever read.

jdc

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4/26/11

Subject: God deceiving verse

Ezek. 14:9: “And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.”

Whew, John, this book is really bringing out new thoughts about God. Wow, I have never read this verse like this before. Just goes to show us that God can and will do just as HE pleases. He will deceive us, and He will destroy us.  He is an austere GOD!!! This is very sobering.

Lou

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4/26/11

I love all the things we are feeling and learning from God. Job, David, and all the faithful that lived then, and now, know where all things come from.  They knew and know that God is in complete control of everything in their lives, good or bad. The only question is, Are we doing what is pleasing to God? and, Can we continue to believe that, in times of good and of bad?

God, help us know it in all times, and help us trust you always, no matter what it looks like.

Stuart

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4/26/11

Hi Pastor John.

Today, I was working on a window, and could not find the piece that I just worked on. I said to the Lord, “Okay, Jesus, where did you hide it?”  Then, I heard, “Over there.” I looked and there it was – the part I needed! Jesus can hide things in the open, anytime he chooses. There is no telling the things that are in the open from Jesus, just waiting for someone to ask, “Where is it?” That’s why we have to ask, seek, and knock on the door. All wisdom and knowledge, as you have taught us, are “hidden in him”. This was a very small, but great lesson for me today.

Billy M

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4/26/11

Hi Dad,

I wonder how Satan excused himself to lie to Eve, assuming he knew that God was watching him do it. I guess the serpent may not have been him, but Satan would have known God knew he was involved, at the least. He certainly wasn’t trying to get on God’s bad side. Could it have been another Job situation?

John David

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Yes, it could have been. Why would God have even put a forbidden tree there in the garden in the first place if He was not going to try Adam with it? At any rate, God had not lost any control; that much, we know.

The scene with Eve and the serpent in Genesis 4 may have been the result of an untold scene in heaven like the one found in 2Kings 22:17-22.  And there is also the distinct possibility that Satan thought he was telling Eve the truth when he suggested that God had a self-serving motive for commanding Adam not to eat of the tree.  After all, Satan had a self-serving motive for everything that he did, and he did think that God was like him.

Good question, son.

Dad

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5/2/11

Hi Pastor John,

How blessed we are to be able to come to your home to be a part of the love of God we felt this weekend!  Saturday night and Sunday were both wonderful.  I loved hearing about the dream God gave you to explain why he had to humble Job.  Earl and I talked about it at lunch, and Lou, Doris, and I talked about it on the way home. It wasn’t until I read again the first and second paragraphs in Chapter 6 that the point you were trying to get across really clicked. When I read that “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” of God were hidden in the Son and that nobody possessed this wisdom and knowledge until the Son came, then I saw the importance of what God showed Job about Himself in Chapters 38 thru 41.  Job was given a glimpse of God’s kind of righteousness, which wasn’t revealed until the Son came.

Every time something is revealed, it amazes me how God hides things.  I have notes in my old Bible (from when I first started coming to your meetings in 1996) where you were teaching all around the point of what God revealed to you this weekend.  You were seeing bits and pieces but not the whole picture until God was ready to put it together for you.

Thank you for listening to God,

Randell

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5/5/11

Subject: Was Job really going through a trial?

[The following is a question that Pastor John put to three of his children (Token, Bekah, John David) and to his secretary, Amy, and then put before the whole congregation.]

I want to ask you four a question.

Where did we get the idea that Job’s suffering was intended by God as a test for him? Was Job being tried, or is that idea only what people assume was going on?

jdc

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What about this (Job 23:10)? “But He knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold.”

Token

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So, now we know what Job thought of his sufferings. But what did God think? Where did the idea come from that God caused Job to suffer in order to test him?

jdc

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Verses like this one made me feel like Job was being tested:

“...But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse thee to thy face.”

It seems as if Satan was implying that Job would not stand under the pressures of a trial/test of his faith, and so God agreed to allow Satan to test out his theory.  I’m sure that God had a bigger plan/purpose than simply watching Satan prove himself wrong, but I don’t see how one could say that a trial/test wasn’t what was happening – even if the result was growth into a more-than-perfect perspective for Job.

(I’m in class until 3p PST, so I apologize that this is not better articulated... Trying to multi-task.)

Bekah

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Yes, Satan was definitely implying that. So now, we agree that Satan AND Job thought that Job was being tested by his sufferings. And the result (which you mentioned), that Job was introduced to something “more than perfect”, is not the point. The question is, Where did we get the idea that GOD’s plan was to test Job? The question is not, What did Satan or Job (or anyone else) think was happening.

Multi-tasking is acceptable. :)

jdc

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I don’t see how it’s not “looking through the cracks” to try to separate what the Bible tells us about what is going on from how it was perceived by the person (Job) who was going through it. That kind of hermeneutical approach could lead to some really weird results throughout the Bible, no?

If the Bible doesn’t tell us anything about why God did it, then how can we do more than just leave it at that? Or, are you seeing a particular scripture that has gone unnoticed that sheds light on God’s purpose?

Also, could we not re-define all our trials in this way? I’m sure God has a larger/different purpose in all of them. In fact, I’m sure He’s simultaneously doing a great number of things with/through them.

At this point, I guess I’ll have to wait to see where you’re going w/ this, cause I’m confused. :)

Bekah

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I’m just trying to point out the fact that God had determined the end of Job from the beginning. To reward Job for his love of God and his integrity was God’s full intent from the outset. Job did not have to pass a test of affliction to get anything. He had already passed all his tests. His sufferings were the way to his reward; they were not a “test” to see if he was worthy of it. Job had already been judged worthy of great blessing from God before the biblical story of Job began. The book of Job records how God ushered the “perfect and upright” Job into that great blessing.

The Bible never tells us Job was being tested, does it? I asked you four about that in the beginning, and I have gotten nothing but what Job, who admits he did not understand what was happening, said, and what Satan, who was a fool, probably thought. Thankfully, we do not have to judge events by what those who had no knowledge of the Son thought was happening. Now, THAT would be a bad hermeneutic method. :)

Hmmm. Maybe we should consider re-evaluating our “trials” that way.

jdc

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If we defined our trials in this way, how would that be different than viewing them through the lens of your Suffering and the Saints book, which we already have?

Bekah

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It wouldn’t, if we looked at them all that way. But not all sufferings have the same purpose. It is liberating once we see Job’s story the way I am suggesting to you. It sets the heart free from something superstitious, something of Christian tradition that is false and glorifies the Devil and fails to adequately glorify the power and wisdom and goodness of God. It is a matter of the heart.

Job’s trials were not designed as a test of his character; his character had already been thoroughly proved. That is why God boasted of him before the sons of God in heaven, even before Satan, heaven’s prosecutor, who would find a fault if anyone could. At the beginning of Job’s story, God had already decided to reward Job with a glimpse of His righteousness, which the Son would later reveal. Job probably was as changed by that experience as David was by his taste of New Testament mercy.

I still am waiting to see if anyone can find a place in the Bible that states, from God’s viewpoint, that the purpose of Job’s afflictions was to test him. I will send this out to everybody if you four are finished looking.

jdc

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It makes sense that the reason God spoke roughly to Job was to help him humble down to the point that he could feel God’s righteousness. So, that was not a trial. What you are suggesting now is that all of Job’s suffering was not to perfect him, but to prepare him to be humble enough (with a humility not required at that time to be perfect) to receive his reward for prior trials passed.

Is that what you are suggesting?

jd

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You got it. God had the same purpose in Job, Chapter 1 that He had in Job, Chapters 38-41.

jdc

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Wow.  Well, looking at it that way, God had already said that Job was “perfect and upright”, so he did not need to prove it to be so. hmmm...

Amy B

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...and, Satan already knew it, along with other creatures in heaven, because God said it out loud to them. So, Satan’s goal was to separate Job from God?  or the love of God?  which is what his goal is now.

jdc

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Was Job’s wife and friends or folks in the community tested by Job’s suffering?

Billy H.

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Probably so.

jdc

PS They flunked.

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My brain’s been going since this conversation started!  To think that the purpose of God having Job go through everything in order to humble him enough to receive a New Testament blessing in Old Testament time is almost hard to comprehend. The love of God in that is something else.  He wasn’t “testing Job’s faith”!  Job already had that tested. God wanted Job to have more of Him. Wow...

Ashley

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Honestly, it is difficult for me to take in, too. I have to stop and shake my head sometimes. What I suspect is that the prouder we are, the more difficult it is to believe this is the way it really was.

jdc

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That’s very interesting.  It takes it a step farther than even what you were saying Sunday. I re-read the first and the last few chapters of Job, and it’s hard to tell. I still feel like I’m working on getting past the idea that Job wasn’t being punished by God’s speech at the end. It’s hard to get past that, let alone think that Job’s suffering maybe wasn’t even a test for him. We know that God had it set up from the beginning to reveal hearts. It’s just very hard to think about it that way!

Atn.

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Job was upright and perfect in an OT sense, but is that different from being humble? Was Job perfect in God’s sight but still not humble enough?

Was Job such a proud man that it took all the suffering God put him through to get humility in Job? Or is the purpose of Job’s story not as much about Job, but an example for us of the type of NT humility required by God?

Richard, Amy, Margaret

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Hey there.

Great question! Thanks.

Part of Job being upright and perfect in an Old Testament [= pre-Pentecost] sense was that he was humble in an Old Testament sense. He had no knowledge of the kind of humility Christ would reveal when he came. Job’s human kind of humility could never bring Job to the righteousness of God. Throughout the sufferings of Job, God was driving Job farther past the lowest Old Testament kind of humility in order to prepare Job to taste, and to survive the taste, of God’s kind of righteousness. When Jesus was with his disciples, he told them that when the Spirit came, it would bring a conviction upon men (Jn. 16). What God did to Job was to force him to feel that kind of New Testament conviction without the Spirit being available.

It is exactly the sort of thing King David experienced when he tasted New Testament mercy after he had committed adultery and murder. Such mercy was not only unavailable under the law; the law specifically forbade it!

jdc

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I love learning about the story of Job! I love that I comprehend and understand what God was doing with Job. It is an overwhelming feeling that Job was not being tested and tried, that God was not trying Job with sufferings, but only wanting to show Job His righteousness. It is definitely not what I learned from a small child about the book of Job in the Bible.

Julie A

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I’ve been thinking about this email since I read it yesterday...

I think it would puff man up to think of his trials as similar to the story of Job. We are not told of all the tests Job went through before this story in the Bible. It’s somehow different from the message in the Suffering and the Saints book.  Job’s trials occurred earlier in Job’s life than what we have in the Bible.  After all, he was already perfect in chapter 1.

just my thoughts

Amanda

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5/6/11

I heard a clip of a testimony from Token about needing to hear from God before judging someone’s sickness. That certainly would apply to Job’s sufferings.

Haven’t we had situations among us like this? Lou chose the hotter fire, and now she seems blessed with health for her age. And you admitted in your chain saw accident that you felt no condemnation when it happened.

At the least, it seems Jesus was doing more than just correcting in those situations.

jd

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5/6/11

I’ve enjoyed reading all the emails about Job too! Its good to ponder over the things of God.

Is it too far fetched to see Job’s story as an allegory of life in the Spirit? We, like Job before his story began, had to be humble and morally righteous before we could receive the baptism of the holy Spirit. But, like Job, that was just our righteousness. The righteousness of God is only possible to obtain by following the Spirit. Jesus said, “If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it” (Mt. 24-25). I know that Job knew nothing about the Son and what he was going to accomplish. But, Job did lose his life in the sense that he lost his children, his wealth, and his status in the community. I was just wondering if Job’s sufferings were an OT version of his cross that he had to bear before he could be allowed to see that glimpse of the righteousness of God.

Billy H.

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I can see that, yes.

jdc

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Hi John,

I have really enjoyed reading all the e-mails about Job’s reward. It reveals what the Son did as being so much more important than anything ever done, or ever could be done, for God’s people.

A person could have and did live in OT times perfect and upright under the law, but no matter how many people lived that way, they still fell short of the righteousness of God. It is amazing that God has given us a glimpse at what He really wanted for Job, and other “perfect and upright” people in biblical history. It is hard to believe that Job even knew what God had done for him until the Son came and made the Spirit of God available to men. It must have felt like a dream for him at times, and I know it must have changed him for the rest of his life.

I am so thankful to be living in this time, where we can live in God’s righteousness! God, help me take all this in. It is liberating and overwhelming at the same time. What a God we have – or who has us.

Stuart

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I doubt that Job knew what had happened to him, Stuart, until the Son of God was revealed.  David probably didn’t understand what happened to him, either, when he was forgiven of murder and adultery.

jdc

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5/6/11

Hey

Reading the emails on Job set me to hunting some things. I read this TFE “Beyond Perfection” http://www.goingtojesus.com/site/php/thoughts.php?tname=tfe12-17 and some places in Job. In the TFE there is this:

When Elihu’s last words were still in the air, at the end of chapter 37, God Himself showed up and took up Elihu’s indignant speech, almost, it seems, in the midst of one of Elihu’s thoughts. It was as though Elihu and God were one, although that cannot be, for Elihu admits that he, like Job, is “made of clay”. He was, however, an exceptionally wise and holy young man.

In Job 34:35-37, Elihu says: “Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom. My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men. For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.” But Elihu did have some concept of God’s righteousness because he went on to say in 35:2, “Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidest, ‘My righteousness is more than God’s’?”

How does that all fit into where we are now?  Elihu seemingly assumed Job had sinned and was in fact adding to it.

Damien

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Hey, Damien.

I was thinking about Elihu yesterday, and that verse in particular. Elihu has come down a few notches in my eyes recently, but I have not yet re-read all that he said, so that may be pre-mature. He did not know that God’s kind of righteousness was a different kind of righteousness. He seemed to be saying only that God was more righteous than men. That was the way everybody understood God’s righteousness before the Son came – in terms of quantity more than quality, if I dare say it that way.

Elihu obviously thought Job was being tried, as you point out. So now, we have Job, Elihu, and Satan, all thinking alike. But is it wise to assume that God’s thoughts were the same as those of His creatures regarding Job’s suffering?

jdc

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5/8/11

Dear Bro. John:

Just finished watching the reading of the Father and Son book, Chapter 6, on the web, and thoughts and feelings are flooding me. There are so many – one leading to another! I think I am beginning to understand why it is going to be hard to find an ending to this book! It is so very good. Lord, help us catch up to you.

A few thoughts from today:

Something that came to mind as you were talking was what the Lord said to us all on February 20, 2001: “You are still a proud people. Humble down!  Humble down!”

I remember when I heard those words that day, I thought, “But, God, I have my face (and body) on the floor. What more can there be to humbling than this?” But what God saw was “form” and man’s righteousness. It has taken ten years just to get a glimpse of what God was saying then! And the Father and Son book, with Job, is revealing it, and so much more! As you simply put it: “It is God’s Righteousness versus man’s righteousness.” Not humbling ourselves according to our own righteousness but humbling ourselves to the Righteousness of God. And it takes God to show us how to humble ourselves; otherwise, even while bowing down, we are in our own righteousness and “still a proud people.”

Then, when you were talking about people being afraid (paraphrased) to let go, and go beyond the ceremonies and things of Christianity, I thought again of what the Lord said to me: “Symbolism is NOT me!” It struck me that if people could hear what Jesus is really saying, it would be that HE is what is left standing when all man’s righteousness (ceremonies and symbols) is left behind. Take it all away but the Son, and when you get to him, all of man’s righteousness is, as Paul said, just “dung”:

“But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith, that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death, if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.”

I also thought today of how many times the Lord has spoken things to us and we thought we knew the meaning. What tender love is shown from Him as He carries us along until we truly “hear” the fullness of His words.

Thank you, Bro. John, for your love and devotion to the truth and teaching us. I am so very thankful to be hearing such wonderful revelations as we are hearing now from God through the writing of the Father and Son book. I love what you said a few weeks ago in one of the Father and Son readings:

“All we are is loved – that’s our history, that’s our future, that’s our salvation.”

So many wonderful thoughts today. This is just becoming more and more a love story of the Father and Son . . . . and us.

Sandy :)

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5/9/11

Pastor John:

What was Job thinking when he mentioned the iniquities of his youth? Do you think that he pondered this was a possibility for the events transpiring ?

Am I remembering this correctly?  If yes, does this mean he somewhat agreed with his comforters in at least the theory of their reasoning?

Wendell

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I believe that Job agreed with his three friends in principle. He just could not agree with them that he had caused his sufferings by committing sin. Yes, Job said at one point that God was calling him into account for the sins of his youth. But that was just a guess. Job had no idea what was happening to him.

jdc

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5/29/11

Hi Amy,

Thank you for sending us these excerpts (below).  They are wonderful. I love what God has let us see through the relationship He had created with His Son, and that He wanted to share that with us.  That is so good !! :-)  I feel blessed and honored to be able to take those things in and be a part of where it is happening.  I am so thankful that we know a who and not a what!  I loved them all but here are a few quotes from Pastor John that I really liked.

Stuart

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“With human life, man can desire God; he can know God exists and talk about God; he can even admire God’s works; but without God’s Spirit, he cannot live God’s kind of life and know Him.”

“Fellowship with the Father and the Son means to feel their feelings and to think their thoughts.”

“It is only because we have the light of God’s life that we can understand the gospel.”

“God’s life was in the Son.  That is what made him God’s Son instead of just another species of creature in God’s Creation.”

“Because God is a God of relationships, He is most clearly seen where people enjoy a right relationship  with Him together.  The true and living God is revealed most fully where there is fellowship among saints, not where there is a lone person who is righteous.”

“God’s kingdom is a kingdom of the heart, a spiritual kingdom that no one can enter by his own will and that is never forced upon anyone.  It is a kingdom of love and peace, and at the same time, it is a kingdom with an order that cannot be opposed, except at the risk of one’s soul.”

“No one can get to God by going around His visible representatives because God stands behind His messengers, not beside them.”

“There is no ceremony in the New Testament of Jesus Christ.”

“The Father and the Son share communion with their children every moment, for it is not a ceremony; it is God’s life, and all of God’s children are invited to drink freely of that fountain, all the time.”

“Hypocrisy is the human condition because the Devil, the father of form, has ‘deceived the whole world.’”

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6/1/11

These excerpts and “thought-bytes” are just terrific little nuggets... which serve to summarize and focus the meaning of the book as a whole. Good reading!!! Thanks.

Brad

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8/29/11

Subject: Chapter 8

Dear Brother John,

Today was one of the first times I came close to doing what you have taught us to do . . . take the time to study the scriptures, and be led by the Spirit in doing so. I’m not patting myself on the back, just testifying. . . I truly felt that I applied myself today, having missed your meetings recently, and hunkered down to read that glorious Chapter 8, and Jesus was right there beside me, in lieu of you, my pastor. I spent hours with that manuscript and my Bibles, referencing everything, feeling the good feelings of the holy Ghost, and digesting all the goodness in your writing – in God’s revelation.  Oh, I just loved my morning! I like that you changed the title to simply “Government.” And I liked how you rearranged many parts of the chapter, trimming, simplifying, and adding such understandable precepts.

I was really blessed by the valuable time I devoted to Him... and to the work you have so diligently accomplished.

Brad

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I am glad you did that, Brad. The beauty of the truth is worth taking the time to observe slowly, thoughtfully, and in detail. Doing that makes us more like Jesus.

jdc

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8/28/11

Dear Amy,

I started to read Chapter 8 today from the Father and the Son book. I have just read 5 pages so far, and I love that so much, especially this thought: “There is nothing dead in the kingdom of God. His Word is a who, His wisdom is a who, as well as His righteousness and his light. Even the gospel is a who!!”  That’s is so true! I love to read that! Even I knew that truth, but I felt that it is the first time I have paid attention to “Who” like that! He is really an awesome God! I love to know about him day after day! He is amazing and I love Him a lot :)

love you!

Magy

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10/6/11

[Pastor John to the congregation]

Hi there!

Before I shut down for tonight, I thought I would fill you in on how things are going with editing Chapter 9. I know that Sister Willie told me not to read it (lest I change anything), but I have read a part of it. :)

Last Thursday night, about halfway through the last half of 9, the chapter started feeling bogged down. So, that last half of Thursday night’s reading is what I concentrated on today. I have written and re-written it, and some of us have read it together a couple of times, and I still had to go back and try it again. Maybe when we read it tomorrow, it will flow easy, like the earlier parts do. When it is perfect, it makes me feel as if I am being carried along by the chapter, not writing it. What I have been looking for is the thing that slows down the current. Pray for me, that I can find it and feel the river flowing from the beginning of that chapter to the end.

Tonight, I have just finished going through Ashley’s, Bob’s, and Amy’s corrections/suggestions from last Wednesday and Thursday. I thank them, and all of you who have helped me with reading and making comments. Your strong interest in the things of God is an encouraging gift to me.

Tomorrow, I will print out the whole Chapter in the morning, now that I have all the corrections in, and we will read it all the way through and see how it feels.

At times with Chapter 9, it has felt like a wrestling match, as if I was trying to wrestle something, or someone, to the ground. It hasn’t been bad, just a good struggle. Hopefully, the wrestling match will soon come to an end.

Goodnight! I am thankful for the people God has placed in my life!

jdc

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Hi Pastor John,

Often, when I think about Christianity, I remember something you said years ago that sums up chapter 9.  What I remember you saying is ,“There is nowhere in the Bible where God ever ordained the religion of Christianity to represent what His Son came here and suffered and died for.”  I have had thoughts about this off and on since last Thursday night’s reading and thought I would share it with you.

I am thankful for you and your love of God that you share with us!

Bro Randell

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10/16/11

Pastor John:

Concerning the translation of Hosea 6:4: “My people are silenced because of a lack of knowledge”:

They are silenced by a lie. I now see clearly for the first time this trick which Satan has used from the beginning. As long as a lie is being repeated and believed, he can remain hidden in this world. (For a time it even worked in Heaven.)  To really see how this has been accomplished is, to me, astounding.  Because lies are the norm in this world, Jesus and his ambassadors are the target of constant slander propagated by and believed by unstable souls in this foolish world.

This sure makes it seem so just for God to destroy this tainted world. It is not a fit place for His Son to rule for eternity. For a while (a thousand years), so that his enemies will know they are being put under his feet, Jesus will rule here.  The truth is, though, that Jesus deserves a better place than this world to rule forever.

Poor Satan offered to give this world to Jesus, and little did he know that Jesus’ Father was going to give him a world much better.

Wendell

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Yes, Brother Wendell. If a man is not speaking the truth, he is silent, as far as Jesus is concerned, even if he talks all day and all night, because without knowledge of the truth, a person has really said nothing at all.

Pastor John

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10/24/11

I sure did enjoy reading those chapters yesterday morning. This has been such a big project, but it is so worthwhile if someone can feel the way I felt reading it. Some of my favorite parts were the introductions you wrote to the scriptures. What you wrote would really open up those verses, and make them more meaningful.

I also wanted you to know that the blog you wrote about Solomon, “What Solomon Really Saw”, was one of the best I’ve ever read. As I read it I thought, “This is what really belongs on the front page of the New York Times this morning!” Even though that kind of front-page “splash” is not the way Jesus has ever worked, I couldn’t help but think about people that I’ve known and loved that could benefit from reading it, and I wished that they would even want to read it.  I’m just thankful that I can read something like that blog or the Father and Son book and feel the life of the Spirit in them.  There were several times reading yesterday that I had to put the book down and just thank Jesus through tears. I am looking forward to seeing the response that comes from this book. It’s like when you have a really neat gift for someone, and you can’t wait to give it to them!  :)

Good night!

Lee Ann

==========

Father and Son Emails – 2012

2/18/12

Hi everybody!

We will be reading the last couple of chapters together soon. I found this wonderful quote from a Sandy testimony, a few years ago. I added it to the Father and Son book, Chapter 7, tonight:

“Everything the Son is, the Father was, first.”

jdc

==========

Hi again.

Today, I found the following email from my daughter, Token, which she wrote to me on January 26, 2007. When I read my reply to her, I thought, “Whew. God has helped me since then!”  It’s good sometimes to look back and see where God has brought you from.  I was kind of seeing things right, but was more like a blind man feeling around for the truth in the dark, and being told, “You’re getting hot!”  I think my reply to Token’s email shows that you guys push me in the right direction, and keep the “pressure” on, to feed you the truth, and nothing but.

jdc

----------

Daddy,

I take it that the Devil and his angels sinned before Adam and Eve but were not cast out of heaven until Jesus rose from the dead. I wonder if God even pointed the Devil out in heaven as “a bad guy”, or if He kept all of it in His heart, letting him deceive those He could of the angels until they were all suddenly gone... Is there any evidence one way or another?

te

========

Hi Token:

There were evil spirits in God’s presence in heaven during the Old Testament (e.g. 2Kgs. 22:19-23). God still spoke with them, and they with Him. In that case from 2Kings, God spoke quite openly with an evil spirit, in something like a heavenly counsel, about that spirit going to earth to act as a “lying spirit”. So, all the heavenly host must have known there was evil among them.

The attitude of the faithful angels, cherubim, seraphim, and other heavenly creatures is unknown, but we can surmise from certain of Jesus’ teachings that it was one of patience. (After all, who in heaven has authority to do anything that God has not commanded?) I am thinking in particular Jesus’ parable of the tares in the field. In that parable, God’s servants wanted to rid the field of the tares immediately upon discovery that they were there. But God forbade them to do so until His appointed time. The attitude of those servants of God then had to change, and it did, once they heard His voice and learned what His will was.

So, there seems to have been among the faithful creatures in heaven a knowledge that some of them had become wicked. And when they saw God do nothing immediately about it, they resolved to share heaven with unfaithful heavenly creatures in quiet confidence until God’s appointed time (whenever that would be). They must have wanted badly for the wicked to be cast out, though, for when the Son of God returned home and Satan and his followers were finally cast out, the faithful creatures rejoiced (Rev. 12:1-12).

You will remember also that Jesus tolerated Judas in silence for years, even to the point of keeping the other disciples in the dark about him. Indeed, even up to the moment Judas exposed himself as the betrayer by leading the mob to arrest Jesus in Gethsemene, the other disciples (with the possible exception of John), thought Judas was a disciple in good standing.

jdc

==========

3/16/12

Subject: In Chapter 5, I read this prophecy from the Old Testament: “The Lord [F] called me from the womb, from my mother’s belly.”

If the Son of God was always there in heaven with the Father, how could he come from his “mother belly”? He was talking about Mary’s son, but Mary’s son was not the Messiah, was he?

Margaret

==========

Hi Margaret.

Thank you for the question. It is an important one.

Often, after God changed a man, from that point on, the new man was referred to as if he has always been who he is after the change. For example, Paul spoke of “Abraham” doing things which he did only when he was still “Abram”, years before God made him “Abraham”. But Paul was telling the truth because “Abram” and “Abraham” are the same person.  In another Old Testament prophecy, Micah spoke of the Son coming from Bethlehem, but that is only because the Son of God and the Son of Mary became one person. It would not, then, be that unexpected a thing for God to speak of His Son coming from Bethlehem because from the moment they became one person, that new person is referred to as if he had always existed just like he was then. Whew. I hope I explained that well enough.

As for Mary’s son being the Messiah. The angel of the Lord called him “Christ” (Greek word for “Messiah”) on the night Jesus was born, in Luke’s gospel. But that is because Jesus was chosen to be the Messiah. Jesus had no power to act as the Messiah until the Son of God came upon Jesus at John’s baptism. It sounds odd when we analyze it, but it is the same way we talk about things. I will demonstrate it for you:

If I were to ask you, “Where did you meet Arnold, your husband?”, you will probably reply by telling me about the place you first saw Arnold. But Arnold wasn’t your husband then; so, that was not the place you met Arnold, your husband. You met Arnold, your husband, when you became man and wife. The angel who called Jesus “Messiah” the night he was born in Bethlehem was right, just as you are right (in a way) when you say that you met your husband at such-and-such a place. But in reality, you first met Arnold your husband only when Arnold became your husband, at a later time and place. Likewise, Jesus was not “Jesus Christ” until after the Christ came from heaven and dwelt within that temple, but we can rightly say, as the angel did, that Christ was born of Mary, even though the truth is, Christ was really never born at all. Christ was the Son who existed from the beginning and “through whom God made the worlds”.

Pastor John

==========

3/25/12

Bro. John:

I watched you all on the web tonight, and there were so many wonderful feelings from start to finish. I took notes on some “one-liners” that were so good:

“God has no opinions, only knowledge” (Uncle Joe’s version of that would have been this: “We have no knowledge (without God), only opinions!”) :)

“It’s never ‘yes’ or ‘no’ – it’s GOD!” (Mmmmm, I loved that so much I could taste it!)

Another thing you said tonight made me think of the following very sobering scripture that I was reading this week in Nehemiah. You said, “Having been given the truth, we are in a position where there a great cursing or great blessing may come upon us, depending on what we do with the truth we have been given.”  This is what I read in Nehemiah (10:28-29):

“And the rest of the people, the priests, the Levites, the porters, the singers, the Nethinims, and all they that had separated themselves from the people of the lands unto the law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, every one having knowledge, and having understanding, they clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God’s law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and His judgments and His statutes...”

How serious it is to take the vow of God and become His people! I remember how Bro. Glen loved Deuteronomy 28, where the blessings and the curses were listed. I don’t want to forget that it is not just blessings we receive when we enter into the oath of God, but also curses if we do not obey Him. It was very sobering to read these scriptures and be reminded of my vow to God and His vow to me.

I am loving the Father and Son material. What a book it is going to be for God’s people! I know that it is only by the grace of God we believe what He has shown us. I pray His grace will touch others’ hearts to hear and feel what is in this anointed book. When you were reading concerning the story of Job tonight and paused because it was so good, my mind was on how much God is purging our hearts of Christianity’s version of Job’s story. And Christianity’s version of God! . . . and even of Satan! Oh, my, what thankfulness I feel right now!

It is all so overwhelming - - - and good!

Sandy :)

==========

3/26/12

Hey Pastor John,

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed the reading last night. I had forgotten this was the section about Job, and as we read on, I could feel my excitement as we got closer to the parts where God explains what He was doing with Satan. As we were sitting there reading and enjoying what we had been shown, I could feel, for a very long time, a sensation of chills running over me. I had the thought, “Oh, I’m getting a little chilly.” But as we sat there and read and enjoyed it, I realized that it was the Spirit of God running very faintly all over my body, and for quite a long time. It felt soo good. Even still after I got home, I kept replaying what we had read and heard and felt last night. It was a very good thought to me, when you said that as long as we think we have any bit of control of a situation, then we are not fully trusting in the Lord, and that we have not fully given it to Him. (I think that is how you said it). It is the human nature to “keep things under control” in our own realm of life, and where we have control of daily, even hourly and minutely, situations. But truly letting Jesus guide our life is always seeking His will. We really don’t know anything without Him. We don’t know how to be a good wife or husband, sister or brother, or anything else without Him.

Last night really was good to my soul!

Julie A

==========

Thanks, Julie. Rob and I were talking today about how the feelings from this weekend followed us home and have continued. So, you were not the only one feeling that way!

Concerning the point I was making, as long as we think we have something to add to God, any advice or wisdom concerning any particular situation, we really haven’t fully realized that we know nothing without His help. He really is our only hope – BUT He is enough! He loves us, and He is enough.

Thanks for writing.

jdc

==========

3/27/12

Pastor John,

I loved the sweet feelings that flowed at the end of the reading Sunday. That is what reading and talking about Jesus does. Truly, there is something about that name. You could feel the Life when you were praying for our family, while Brother Gary was playing in the background. You could barely hear Gary, but the feelings of the song were “loud and clear”. It’s about Jesus and his Father.

I felt such a deep appreciation for Bob, John David, and Stuart managing the web camera and audio for us for us who could not be there. I know our hearts were there, and the fellowship and love of the Spirit was there. It is not a small thing to witness and or feel the Spirit when it moves. We are blessed.

Just about every book has some kind of introduction or preface. I feel that this book about the Father and the Son is the preface of love for your upcoming book, The Iron Kingdom. It reminds me of how John the Baptist was the “preface” to Jesus’ ministry to Israel. Then Jesus came and taught Israel, with words and with power, about the Kingdom of God. This book will introduce (again) the truth about Jesus and his Father to His children, and then open those feelings, for all who want it, to see the truth about the evil that has been done to Jesus by the Iron Kingdom of Christianity.

To me, it just feels these two books would go hand-in hand.

Bro. Billy

==========

4/2/12

Hi, Pastor John:

The reading Sunday really did something for me; it was very joyful. You were reading about Jesus and the Temptation in the wilderness. Satan came to Jesus, not knowing who he was, but knew he was on another mission from God. But unlike any prior mission, this man (Jesus) confronted Satan with the righteousness of God. It wasn’t just that Jesus knew more scriptures than Satan, but Jesus confronted Satan with what God is, because God’s wisdom and righteousness was inside him (Jesus). It just made me wonder what kind of thoughts Satan must have had when this man spoke to him like he did. It just thrilled my soul. My heart said, “Now, that’s how it’s done!” Praise God! It’s like you know it, but the reading made it clearer. The truth takes the flesh out of overcoming anything; everything the flesh does is from it’s own will. Men don’t know how to overcome anything without God. Everything of the world is of the flesh, and that is Satan’s only weapon against us – our flesh. I love Romans 8:9: “But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you.”  And, “If any man hath not the Spirit of Christ (God’s life) he is none of his.”

This gave me more appreciation for what Jesus did for us, like Cliff’s testimony of Jesus’ crucifixion. I do hope we will read the rest of chapter 6 together. I felt such a great hope! It was so wonderful. The feelings from the reading are still here with me this morning. Amen!

Billy M.

==========

And the thoughts we have been having this morning are just breath-taking, Billy. Pray that we can get it all written down.

jdc

==========

4/3/12

Thought for the Morning
5-13

The Spirit of Law

The spirit of law is of Satan; the law of the Spirit is of Christ.

Since we were just talking about the law this weekend, thought I’d forward it to you.

Julie A

==========

That is good, Julie! That is a big part of the message concerning Satan which the Father and Son book has taught us.

jdc

==========

4/5/12

I read the excerpts you sent out from Chapter 6 of your Father and Son book.

Wow, wonderful thoughts of life!

When you were telling about Eve, and comparing her experience with that of Jesus in the wilderness, it made me remember the very first desire I felt when I realized I needed the holy Ghost because those people who had it had a power to overcome sin every day, a power I knew I did not have in my own!

I LOVE these thoughts from Jesus that you wrote!

Donna N

==========

Excerpts – Father and Son Book

Oh wow, those are good!  I couldn’t even read through them all at once. I felt the Spirit moving on me and had to get up out of my chair to thank God for the life He has given us through His Son! Thank you for sharing these.

Vince

==========

4/5/12

Whew --- what thoughts!

One thing that came to mind after reading the excerpts from Chapter 6 in your Father and Son book was that Christianity expresses Satan’s attitude most perfectly on this earth. It’s expecting a “promotion” for its service to Jesus, but has no clue as to what God really thinks about it. It gets “angry”, just like Satan, when God’s real feelings are in any way expressed.

God is truly saying, “Come out of her, my people”.

Gary

==========

Right, Gary.  The “great whore” sits confidently on her throne saying, “I am no widow, and I will never experience sorrow” (Rev. 18:7). And as we have seen many times, it most certainly is the norm for Christian ministers to become angry and aggressive whenever they are confronted with God’s truth about the New Birth, Salvation, Works, the Father and the Son, and a host of other precious truths that belong to the kingdom of God.

When we, by God’s grace, follow the truth and escape Christianity, we cease being angry when we hear the truth, and we start rejoicing in it because the truth leads us to the love of God, and His love rejoices in truth (1Cor. 13:6).

jdc

==========

4/5/12

Hey

There sure are some things to chew on in Chapter 6. While reading these things, I had thoughts about two of the consistent lines of attack against Jesus while he was on the earth.

The issue of him being the/a son of God, which was called blasphemy etc.

The issue of keeping the law, and lawfulness in general.

The second issue continued after Pentecost with the accusations brought against Steven and Paul and the trouble involved in Acts 15, in Galatia, and Asia in general. I can see Satan the lawyer being used and at work in this. Just wondering if there is a place to consider these things in the text of the book. If nothing else it opens up the consideration of what was going on while Jesus walked among men. And when you consider things like the Trinity doctrine and the whole issue of ceremonies, these lines of attack are still present to this day.

I also looked up all occurrences of the exact phrase “the Son of God” in the KJV to see whether the article [”the”] appears in the Byzantine Greek text. Here are the places where the article appears with “Son” (huios) along with the speaker/writer. Don’t know if this shows anything. If Romans 1:4 is accepted as having the article, then every occurrence [of “Son of God”] after Pentecost has the article.

Matt 26:63 high priest speaking

Mark 3:11 unclean spirits speaking

Luke 4:41 demons speaking

22:70 the council of elders speaking

John 1:34 John the Baptist speaking

1:49 Nathanael speaking

5:25; 9:35; 11:4 Jesus speaking

11:27 Martha speaking

20:31 John speaking

Acts 8:37 (? This verse is not in the Byzantine mss. The UBS Greek text also omits this verse, but in footnotes, some Greek versions cited for v. 37 do have the article.)

9:20 Paul speaking

Rom. 1:4 Could be. Whole phrase in genitive - του ορισθεντος υιου θεου

2Cor. 1:19 Paul (interposed words between article and huios)

Gal. 2:20 Paul

Eph. 4:13 Paul

Heb. 4:14; 6:6; 7:3; 10:29 author of Hebrews speaking

1John 3:8; 4:15; 5:5, 10, 12, 13, 20 John

Rev. 2:18 Jesus

Damien

==========

Thanks, Damien.

It is interesting that the overwhelming majority of occurrences of the phrase, “Son of God”, after Pentecost, “the” is attached. The Son really was revealed when the Spirit came, wasn’t he?

“The issue of keeping the law and lawfulness in general” was not that much of an issue while Jesus was still here on earth. But it certainly became a huge issue among God’s people in the years following God’s call to the Gentiles (Acts 10), and especially after God’s anointing of Paul with a gospel for them.

jdc

==========

4/5/12

Hey –

I really enjoyed reading your notes on chapter 6. I have read it twice already and the thoughts are good and sobering. The new birth is a very precious experience, and to even know and understand these things is amazing. I really enjoyed the part you wrote explaining that it was God’s plan from the beginning that Jesus be killed and that God’s plan was no secret in heaven even while Jesus was alive. And also the scene in the Garden of Gethsemane, and God refusing to allow anyone to see His pain. These are good and clear thoughts, and they really explain the feelings of that time. And Jesus crying out and getting no answer from his Father when he said, “Why have you forsaken me?”, makes sense, now that we see it. It’s really something how if we think we know something, it is automatically inserted into our brains as the gospel. It takes God to help us “un-think” what we thought.

Thanks John. This book is really an eye-opener, and I hope it can help God’s people everywhere to come out from the burdens of Christianity. I am thankful that I have been a part of it, and that I can see and understand what is being said. That alone is a blessing. I think it is neat that the Father and the Son are letting us in on what was and is really happening.

Amy B

==========

4/26/12

Good Morning John,

I have been trying to find the answer to a question that I believe you have addressed somewhere in chapter 6. In the chapter 6 notes, it states that Satan would have seen Jesus in the wilderness as any other human and would have expected him to fail as others had done in the past.

My question is this. If Satan perceived Jesus as human, why would he tempt him with things beyond human power to perform, like turning a stone into bread and throwing himself from a cliff. I am almost positive I have seen the answer to this question, but like I said, I cannot locate it now.

Thanks.

Tom

==========

Hi, Tom.

Satan perceived Jesus as human but with a very close connection with God. And he knew that that connection had existed from the time Jesus was born, and that is why he envied Jesus and wanted him dead from the time he was born. According to the gospel written by God in the sky (Rev. 12), Satan is the one behind Herod’s effort to kill the baby Jesus.

As for having power, Satan had seen a number of earthly servants of God, such as Moses, Elijah, and Elisha, demonstrate miraculous power. So, he would have had no problem thinking that Jesus, since he seemed to be special to God, might also have power.

Satan had no idea how much power Jesus really had.

Hope that addresses your question.

jdc

==========

4/26/12

Is there a possibility that the Father is speaking of “bringing forth” the Son into view or revealing him? Looking around, yalad seems nearly always to be connected with literal birth, but there are a few abstract uses such as in Proverbs 27:1. And in the Hithpael, there is the sense of “to declare one’s birth (pedigree)”.

djc

=========

Hi Damien:

I think there is another figurative use of yalad to be found in Psalm 2:7. Often, in the ancient world, when a great king installed another as subject king of a province or territory, he would re-name that lower king, as if that king were his son. Symbolically, in renaming the lower king, the greater king was “begetting” the lower king, the way a father names his son when he is born. Here, in Psalm 2:7, God the Father is speaking of installing Christ on his throne in heaven after his resurrection and ascension. So, yes, your gut feeling is right. The Father “begat” the son when he glorified him and placed him on the throne, thus revealing to be “Lord of Lords and king of kings.”  Several references to this verse exist in the NT, indicating that this enthroning of the Son in heaven was this type of “begetting”, most notably, Acts 13:33.

jdc

==========

5/8/12

Pastor John,

In a footnote in Chapter 7 of your Father and Son book, you mentioned the time period between Jesus’ ascension and the day of Pentecost. Exactly how many days were there between those two events?

Thanks,

Lyn

==========

Hi Lyn,

According to research I did many years ago, the closest we can come to determining the exact number of days between Jesus’ ascension and Pentecost, using biblical information, is that there were from 7 to 10 days between those two events. However, since we know that the law was a pattern for the Son of God, eight days seems to be it, for in Leviticus 8-9, when the Levitical priesthood was initiated, the high priest had to remain inside the tabernacle (in heaven, for Jesus) for seven days before beginning his ministry on the eighth day. For Jesus, that eighth day would have been the day of Pentecost because that is when Jesus’ heavenly priesthood began.

jdc

==========

5/8/12

[A note from Pastor John to the congregation]

Interesting note:

The word “devil” is nowhere in the gospel of Mark.

jdc

==========

5/9/12

Subject: The word “Devil”

Hey John,

Which version are you using? You wrote and said that the word “Devil” is never used in the Gospel of Mark, but I found the word in Mark (KJV) 5:15, 16 and 18, and 7:29-30. Am I missing something? Are you speaking of the Greek? Thanks.

Jim K

==========

Hi Jim.

Thanks for asking.

Yes, I was speaking of the Greek word for the “Devil” (“Accuser” or “Slanderer”). You are looking at one of those mistranslations in the KJV which can lead to a misunderstanding. There is only one “Devil”, but to speak of someone being possessed by “devils”, as the KJV does, makes it seem otherwise.

None of the words in the verses you mentioned should have been translated “devil” or “devils”; instead, they should be “demon” or “demons”, and you will find that “demon” in every modern translation of the New Testament. The word for “demon” is a completely different word from diabolos, the word for “Devil”.

jdc

==========

5/14/12

Pastor John to the congregation

I am excited about some things being made clearer. On the front porch last night, with Rob, Donna, and Barbara, Jesus gave us a good way to express what I have been seeing but couldn’t express. This is probably not in its final form, but note especially the words in bold.

In the Temptation, Satan was not trying to persuade Jesus to bow before him instead of God but to bow to him as Jesus’ superior under God. We must remember that when the Son was on earth, he was still a mystery because “the light of life”, the Spirit of God which would lead men into “all truth” (Jn. 16:13) had not yet been purchased for us. As I explained in Chapter 3, the New Testament did not begin in the Gospels when Jesus was born but in Acts 2, when his followers were born again. Jesus lived his entire life under the law, and every event recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, along with Acts 1, was an event that took place under the law; that is, in Old Testament time.

Since the law was still in effect at the time of the Temptation, the prosecutor of the law still had his job. Satan still occupied the high position in heaven which he had occupied in Moses’ time, and he still expected to be promoted to the right hand of God and to reign over Creation with Him. Jesus’ Temptation was not to see if he would bow to Satan instead of God but to see if he would accept the position of “god of this world”, which, unknown to man, Satan then held (2Cor. 4:4).

Satan would never have dared to try to persuade Jesus to bow down and worship him instead of God. Christian mythology holds that Satan attempted to overthrow God Himself, but that is silly, schoolyard theology. The scriptures declare that Satan is “full of wisdom” (Ezek. 28:12), not that he is an idiot. Satan has always known it is impossible to overthrow the Creator; he just didn’t know that God created all things through a Son. Besides, trying to overthrow God, even if Satan were stupid enough to try it, would have ruined his dream of a promotion. In the Temptation, Satan was carrying out the will of God, as he had done many times before, not trying to replace Him. He hates Christ and all who believe in him because Christ was exalted by God “above the heavens” to sit on the throne which Satan wanted for himself, but he still does not understand that hating Christ Jesus, God’s Son, is to hate God, as God really is. For all his wisdom, Satan proved to be a fool.

jdc

==========

5/17/12

Good morning, Bro. John.

Last night really did something in my heart and mind when you were speaking the truth about Satan. Bro. John, with all my heart, I want Jesus to take away everything that I took in when I was in Christianity. I took in a lot of lies, and I didn’t even realize that it has affected me the way it has. Jesus really does love me.  Even going through the medical issues I am having right now, Jesus has been whispering to me, “Kathy, I have my hands on you, not the Devil.” Bro. John, that is relief for my soul and heart. I wish I could type what I am feeling right now, the feeling of being thankful that I am listening and loving this truth that Jesus is giving to you and that you are giving it to us. I sure do love you and my family in Jesus!

Kathy T

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5/19/12

Subject: The Chapter on The Revelation of the Father

These are some things you said last night, as best as I could jot them down.  8)

- - - - - -

God refuses to have His own chapter without the Son!

There is nothing without the Son.

God and the Son go together.

God has boxed us all in, so that we can’t even talk about Him, the true God, without talking about the Son.  And you can’t talk about the real Son without the real holy Ghost.  He (The Father) won’t allow it.

The Father will not by any means be had without His Son.  And we are not like God if we let ourselves to be "had" without the Son.  A godly person tells the whole world, “It’s me and Jesus, or its not me at all!”

How important is the Son? That’s the revelation of the Father.

Really good, John.

Amy B.

==========

5/24/12

Subject: Mid-way through the book: God’s Idea

Of this section, Rob said, “If anybody reads this far in the Father and Son book, they will never be the same.”

God’s Idea

John does not mention the Temptation of Jesus in his Gospel, but the other three Gospels tell us that after Jesus was baptized by John in the Jordan,

Matthew 4

1. Immediately, Jesus was led up into the wilderness by the spirit to be tested by the Slanderer.

Mark 1

12. The spirit drove him into the wilderness,

13. and he was there in the wilderness, tempted forty days by Satan.

Luke 4

1. Jesus, full of holy spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the spirit into the wilderness,

2. being tempted forty days by the Slanderer.

Jesus was sent by God into the wilderness to be tried by Satan. And if God sent Jesus out to be tried, then the Temptation was God’s idea. And if the Temptation was the Father’s idea, there was not an evil purpose in it. God is good, and all His purposes are “holy, and just, and good”, regardless of the ones He uses to fulfill them. Furthermore, since Jesus’ Temptation was of God, it must also be true that the Father sent Satan down from heaven to put Jesus to the test. Nobody can believe that Jesus just happened to bump into Satan in the wilderness. So, while it is true that God used Satan, what evil purpose could there have been in it? When did God ever use Satan for an evil purpose?

God tries all His sons, and sometimes, the trial can be very difficult (1Pet. 4:12). The author of Hebrews went so far as to say that God “scourges” His sons and that He will receive into His kingdom only the sons who submit to the scourging (Heb. 12:6). The rest, He will consider “bastards” (Heb. 12:8). James said that God does not tempt anyone (Jas. 1:13), but in context, what James was saying is that God does not tempt any man with evil. God certainly tempted Abraham (Gen. 22:1), but what He tempted Abraham to do was good, not evil. James went on to explain that when anyone does evil when he is being tried, it is only because he has yielded to the evil desires of his flesh (Jas. 1:14), not because God led him to sin.

==========

5/24/12

Wow. This is good. I had to print it so I can read it again and let it soak in. So simple and clear and gives understanding.

Lyn

===========

Same here. Really like this section! It is amazing to me that it says plainly that Jesus was led into the wilderness by the Spirit and that the Spirit drove him into the wilderness, and I have read it how many times before? That means God sent Jesus out there.... I like that, and I don’t know what I thought before, but it just kind of flows now with everything. 8)

Amy B

==========

Rob read this out loud to us all this morning. Wonderful! I like it just like it is! :)  I see now that I have never really even understood the words “the Temptation”, much less what was going on!

Donna

==========

5/27/12

Subject: Whew!

After this morning’s session, I am really beginning to really wonder if I will ever get all this written down.

Here are a couple of thoughts to consider, in case it takes me a long time to get it all down. Maybe some of the folk here will add to these from what they remember:

(1) In this Creation, every creature’s nature is determined by the kind of body it possesses.

If you had the body of a fish, you would have the nature of a fish. If you had the nature of an angel, it would only be because you had the body of an angel.

(2) Jesus Christ was the first of a new kind of creature; one whose body did not determine what kind of nature he had.

The nature he had was a divine nature, while his body was still fleshly. My father’s mentor in Christ once told him that sinners cannot be tempted because it was their nature to sin. That is the kind of thing I am saying. The “flesh wars against the Spirit” within us because the Spirit brings with it the nature of God, and it is contrary to the kind of bodies we have.

Nobody with a body that is different from their nature belongs in a universe where one’s body determines what kind nature he has. To prepare a place for His children to live, who are now living in a fleshly body with His nature inside it, God has prepared a new heaven and new earth. He will destroy this heaven and earth, where creatures belong who act according to the nature of their bodies.

jdc

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5/27/12

Good morning John,

I have been dwelling on the thoughts you sent out about a new kind of creature. It is overwhelming how God is revealing so much to us through you with the Father and Son book. I have new thoughts and new feelings every time I read what you send us.

One thing that really stuck out to me was this part: “The flesh wars against the Spirit within us because the Spirit brings with it the nature of God, and it is contrary to the nature of the kind of bodies we have.”

I have always thought of my body as working together with the Spirit to live right in God, that the Spirit came in and made my body submit to the will of God and transform to His will.

When we let the new creature within us take over, it keeps this body under subjection while the new creature dwells in it, here on this earth. It is a war, but one that has already be won, and it is possible for us to win if we let the new creature that God put in us live. Wow!!!! John this is good stuff, life-changing if we grasp it and take it in. Thank you, John

Stuart

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5/27/12

It will be a great relief to get a new body that matches what we really are inside. No more “war”, but we will enter into a “final” rest and peace.

Gary

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Wow.  “This is big, y’all!”, as Sister Lou would say.

Most of Christianity teaches that even after you are “born again”, you are still bound to sin, that everyone HAS to sin, because they can’t help it, or because of the devil or... And being “born again” doesn’t involve spirit baptism (with the evidence of speaking in tongues), then their doctrine is true. Without God’s Spirit, there is nothing within us to war against the flesh, and the flesh is sinful by its nature.

Another thought – that’s why on the new heaven/earth, there will be new bodies that belong with the new nature. Big!  Whew!

Richard

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Wow! We just read this out here on the porch in Boone. Whew is right!

Rob

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Ha!  Wow!  Just copy and paste that into the book somewhere.  So good!

Aaron

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Wow, John, this is something. It helps to understand better now why the “flesh wars against the Spirit” as it does. God sure is pouring out some good new thoughts on us.... Keep working. :)

Lou

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Wow. I’ve been thinking this week about the shame I feel at times just from having this fleshly body (I don’t quite know how to put this), and the war it is constantly waging against the Spirit. I feel like my spirit is clean (though God is the judge of that), but the flesh is always hanging around, ready to “muddy the waters”, or whatever, and it makes me feel ashamed at times, when I haven’t done anything wrong (again, I don’t know how to put it). Thankfully(!), as you put in your email, we won’t have to live forever with that “conflict”. That is REALLY something to look forward to.

This reminds me of years ago, when I finally realized I had the holy Ghost (in that meeting in Henderson when I was turning flips, really drinking it in, etc.) and Sandy said something about the flesh just getting in the way, or not lining up, when we were rejoicing (or however she put it), and I blurted out, “Ain’t that the truth!!” I remember marveling that night (when I was VERY young in the Lord, not knowing anything) of how the flesh was still there the whole time, warring against what was going on.

This is a wonderful thing to think about.

Thanks.

WT

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I have been thinking lately, about the shape of the Spirit that entered Jesus’ fleshly body. The shape was like a dove. If Jesus shared the life of his Father, then the Spirit that came in the shape of the dove, tells me a lot about the Father. Jesus said that he and the Father were one. Then, if God’s life is dwelling in us, then what kind of spirit are we suppose to have?

Billy M

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A glorified body is free, Billy.  It is not bound to any particular body form, though there is a basic one that is “in the likeness of God”. John saw the Son of God in Revelation, first as a brilliant, majestic figure. But later, when John was caught up into heaven, he saw the Son of God as a lamb that had been slaughtered. The Son is “free indeed”, body, soul, and spirit, and he passes that freedom along to everyone who believes in him.

jdc

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This is wonderful. Perfect.

I have observed several debates on the internet between Christians (Xns); some are Calvinist, and some are vehemently opposed to the [evidently] Calvinist doctrine of “original sin.”

You must know, from your seminary days, about Calvin’s beliefs. I do not. I have not taken the time to analyze them to see whether they are biblical or not, and how Calvin arrived at his beliefs, to compare them with other Xn claims. Forgive my confusion, John. . . Would you clarify it in simple terms? This segment from your chapter indicates that all men, women and children are sinners by nature. That is my understanding, from Bible study, as well. How is it that many Xns embrace the belief that men choose to sin, but are not sinners by nature, not “born sinners” because of Adam’s fall in the garden? Again, forgive me if my question is a dumb question. I am just looking for insight as to how they arrive at their doctrine, and claim they are biblically accurate.

Brad

——————

I can’t tell you how Christians come to teach any of their confusing doctrines, except it be they are confused to start with and, so, their doctrines will reflect that. But to answer your question....

Every human being who has lived since Adam has sinned, just as Paul wrote, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.” So then, we are left with but two options.  We can choose to believe that every one of the billions of people who have lived on earth had the choice to be righteous but chose to sin, or we can believe that every one of those billions of people sinned because it is human nature to do so. Now, what do you think? :)

Thanks for the question, Brad.

jdc

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Hi, Pastor John:

This Father and Son book really has been something. I remember you coming up KY to read what you had just learned while at the beach writing. Rob N. was touched in a mighty way, and Richard came because he wanted to learn more and get touched, too. This was in 2009. It was three days after my surgery, in which God saved my life.

Last night reminded me of old-time Pentecostal preaching of the holy Ghost and fire. Mom use to take us to camp meetings and revivals all of the time when we were children; last night had those same clean holy feelings.

The knowledge that is revealed about the trying of Jesus’ faith has taken scales or blinders off of my eyes and heart. Satan had nothing to do with it, other than doing what God sent him to do. My whole life flashed in front of my eyes last night; every trial in our lives is an invitation from Jesus to be blessed by his Father, and he gave us the holy Spirit to overcome this fleshly body in which it lives, and receive those things (treasures) from above.

I was so bubbly I wanted to run around the house, but I didn’t want to miss what was said next. I forgot I could have watched the recording of the meeting.  :) Stuart and I texted after the meeting about what we felt and heard.  I couldn’t sleep, thinking about the good things I saw and heard, and felt.

This needs to be “shouted on the rooftops”, as Gary’s email stated. Last night was like what Token taught a little girl we know to say at their dinner table: “More, please”.

Billy M.

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5/30/12

This is very good John. It sure explains the warfare of the flesh and the Spirit. I listened to the audio last night that Token sent out from the beach. I really liked the end there where you all were talking and you said, “God’s people struggle against something they are not; they do not struggle against what they really are.” That is so good!  Then J–– said, “Then, Jesus was being tempted to be who he already was!”  And you answered, “That was his Temptation, yes.” Really good! I love these thoughts. Looking forward to tonight!

Amy B

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5/30/12

“God’s people struggle against something they are not; they do not struggle against what they really are.”

This is the line that I was talking about this morning at breakfast. It felt so good to me when the light went on, when you first said that; at the same time, it’s felt a little elusive or something.

I understand, I think, that the Spirit we have from God, and so, the person we really are in Christ, is contrary to the fleshly body we are in (i.e. “we are struggling against something we are not”).

But I think I have felt that I was struggling against something that I was (i.e. the nature that is in this flesh). But your thought was so much better than that, and of course, so much more like God. It gives the glory to God, and not the flesh.

There was something about this line that was so good, because we are on the Lord’s side when it goes that way. And momentarily, there was no struggle at all. But it was fleeting.

John, I don’t even know what I’m talking about, probably. But I do know that what I felt was very good. And it’s right. There is something in this for me that I need.

Gary

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Beware of any doctrine that makes excuses/room for sin. The only way to truly glorify God in Christ is to confess holiness in word and in deed, not confess bondage to fleshly weakness and sin. We are either who God has made us in Christ Jesus, or we are foolish. We have no excuse for anything other than what He wants out of us.

jdc

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5/30/12

Subject: “God’s people struggle against something they are not; they do not struggle against what they really are.”

Bro. John:

I could not read that line from your email, above, without thinking of what the Lord told me several years ago when I was listening to my elderly mother go on about her past and the bitterness I felt coming from her concerning her past life. I remember silently telling Jesus that I did not want to be like that when I got older, carrying all that old stuff from the past around in my heart. No sooner had my heart reached out to him when I heard Jesus tenderly say to me, “You are not a product of that (earthly) union anymore”. Whew! Talk about a liberating feeling! I floated home in the arms of Jesus that day. That was when he showed us that when we are in him, we have a “new past”, and we can live in that “newness of life”! Oh, to believe who we are and not struggle against something we are not. Whew! It is good, good, good!

Sandy :)

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5/30/12

Pastor John

I listened to the F&S audio of your family’s beach conversation that Token recorded and then sent out. I felt like a fly on the wall. ;-)

I know I have God’s spirit, but hearing this is like I have had a seed that has been buried, and you have given it food and it opened up in my soul. So, when Jesus overcame the flesh in the wilderness, he no longer was subject to the human nature that was in his flesh! The feelings are way more than I can put in an email.

Natalie

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5/30/12

John,

Jesus completely conquered the nature of the flesh in 40 days! He broke/overcame/went beyond the law/rules of nature of the flesh. And he has made us “more than conquerers, through him that loved us”! Wow.  The thoughts from Father and Son book are not from this planet!

Bess

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5/31/12

John,

After listening to the short audio that Token sent out, what is really beginning to stand out to me is that the Son of God truly did divest himself and take on the nature of man. If he had an inside track or a “head start”, as I think Token put it, his temptation wouldn’t have been a test at all, and it doesn’t seem like it would have taken him forty days to overcome anything. He had to overcome that flesh, just as we do. And he now had the same means to overcome it as we do: the power of the holy Spirit. It seems like the only “advantage” that Jesus had was that he had plenty of faith to believe that anything was possible through the life from God that he now had in that fleshly body.

I have a question: Would Jesus, the man, have been considered a sinner before he was baptized in the Jordan? When Peter, or Paul, or John said that “in him, there is no sin”, were they only referring to Jesus after the Son of God came to his earthly temple? It’s hard to think of Jesus being a sinner at any time, but then without the Spirit of God dwelling in him, wasn’t it in his nature to sin just as any other human being?

Vince

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That’s a question I asked my father, “Preacher Clark”, many years ago. I said, “Was Jesus sinless from the time he was born in Bethlehem, or just from the time he was born again at the Jordan River?” He said, “It doesn’t matter what Jesus was or did before the Spirit came. The only thing that matters is that he was without sin from that time on because what God made him that day was what was offered to God for sin.”

jdc

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6/1/12

Hey!

Last night, Vince and I watched a DVD that my mom gave us when we were there last time. It was about twenty minutes of you sitting out on the Tract Room porch with a few people talking about the Temptation.  When I was listening, I heard something I don’t think you have mentioned before, or if you have, I didn’t remember it. So, I typed it out. It was such a good thought. Here it is:

“God knew Satan was doing whatever He sent him to do and that Satan was faithful in all those missions because He knew that Satan did it all, expecting a promotion for himself. All that Satan did was done with a self-serving motive.  That is what made everything he did sin.

Satan thought God was like himself; he thought God was just like him. And he knew that God knew what was in his heart, that he expected a promotion. He knew that God knew his thoughts, and he thought God approved of them. With that in mind, Satan might well have believed that he was telling Eve the truth when he said God had a self-serving motive for commanding Adam to stay away from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.. If Satan thought God was just like himself, then he must have thought that God had an ulterior, self-serving motive in giving that commandment because Satan always had one. He might have thought, as the Son would truly do later, that he was revealing God to mankind. That’s what many Christian ministers think they are doing, revealing God to people, when they are actually revealing their father, the Devil. My!  That should make us tremble.  Who is really being revealed when we speak of the God we serve?”

That’s something to think about, John. What we are learning makes everything seem new. It makes the Garden of Eden scene different. And it started from the very beginning. That really struck me last night. Satan has been working (or being used by God) for a long, long time. Anyway, I wanted to pass that on to you because I wasn’t sure if you remembered that conversation.

This is good stuff we are learning. 8)

Amy

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Thanks, Amy. I had forgotten that.

jdc

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6/5/12

Hey Pastor John,

When Nebuchadnezzar was cursed by God and given the nature of a beast, it changed his appearance. His body changed somewhat, to agree with the beastly nature God within it.

Is this the same thing that happens when the Lord turns people over to homosexual spirits? Most of the homosexual people I have seen, physically, do not look either female or male, but a weird cross?

Kay

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Yes, Kay. One’s nature can affect the body so much that one’s physical appearance gives clues to what lies within.

Pastor John

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That’s interesting... kind of goes along with these verses. Never thought of it in that way, but it fits.

Rom. 1:26 – For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections, for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

Rom. 1:27 – And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Gary

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6/16/12

What a good night we had, good audio and video on the web.  Wow, what the Father and the Son book has opened up to us through His Spirit!  It is good, life-changing truth. What God has done is our testimony and life.  Thank you, Jesus!  What a blessing to know who and what is over this Creation, including Satan and his angels. We are in God’s hands, and He is in charge of everything.  Wow!!  What a wonderful life we have in His Spirit!  I love the crossroads we come to; each one is an opportunity to grow in God and to learn more about our Father and His Son.  Wow!  We don’t have to think about anything other than Him, and He will meet us with what we need in any situation we come upon.  Thank you, Jesus!!!

Thanks John

Stuart

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6/17/12

Subject: Matthew 3:12: “But Jesus answered and said to him, It is said, You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.”

John,

The [recent Father and Son reading] clarifies so well Jesus’ answer to Satan (above). Our duty is obedience. I have often heard from you in sermons over the years that we don’t test God but that He tests us.  This latest portion of the book, the Temptation, makes it so clear why that statement is true.

Another story which seems relevant comes to mind, if my memory is correct.  It is a story about when your father had just received power from on high, and he cursed a wasp that was flying through the air in the old building where he was praying, and it immediately fell dead, right out of the air. In this case, he wanted to make sure he had heard from God.  He was not testing God but wanted to be sure the anointing Jesus told him he now had was real.

Satan, at a minimum, knew Jesus was a very special man, since God had sent him to test him, but he had never met this type of new creature. I can’t help but ponder if Satan wondered how God felt about Jesus, putting him through such a impossible test for any human (“Was God angry with Jesus?”), or if He thought highly of him, to give such a difficult test. It is frightening to think of the way God used Satan.

Wendell

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6/19/12

Subject: “son of man”

Hi John,

I have a question, I have been reading in Matthew and noticed that Jesus referred to himself a lot as the son of man.  What is it that he is referring to? Is it because he was born of man?  I looked up a lot of places where the son man was used, and God referred to Ezekiel a lot as “son of man”.  Is it just because he was born in the flesh?

Thanks

Stuart

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Yes, Stuart, the Son of God is referring to the natural birth of Mary’s son. In heaven with the Father, he certainly was never called “the son of man”. God also addresses Ezekiel as “son of man” quite often, as you said. The phrase in Ezekiel just means, “human”. It is, of course, very unusual for the Son of God to call himself that, but then, what was NOT unusual about what the Son of God did and said?

jdc

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6/21/12

I just read the last chapter of Luke, and it jumped out at me that the Son explained to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus “the scriptures about himself”, and then opened their minds to understand them (24:27, 45). It jumped out to me, I think, because it sounds and feels like the Son explained to them his coming and the timing of his life, etc., the way you have pulled the scriptures together in the Father and Son book.

Amanda

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Yes, That is exactly what he was doing, and those two disciples were no doubt amazed to hear it.

jdc

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6/22/12

Hey John,

Thinking about the nature of man, I thought of another question this morning. What about angels of the Lord when they appeared before humans (e.g., the angel appearing before Manoah). Were these angels divested into men’s bodies, and if so, were these men already living on earth as was Jesus?

Jim K

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No, Jim, the angels were not in human bodies at all. The bodies of angels are invisible, heavenly bodies. They are not made of flesh, but they are shaped like men’s bodies. Also, as with men on earth, there are minor differences in the bodies of angels. Some angels, for example, are taller than others. I know that is true because I saw three angels once, and one of them was a little taller than the other two.  Generally, however, angels are the size of humans (see Rev. 21:17).

Samson’s parents, Manoah and his wife, saw the angel they saw because God allowed them to see him. Usually, angels are invisible to us, but when God wants us to see one, what we see looks just like one of us. That is why the author of Hebrews could say that “some have entertained angels unawares.” All of us have, at one time or another, have probably met and talked with angels without being aware that we were doing so.

Thanks for the question.

jdc

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6/24/12

Pastor John the the congregation

We were translating Luke 4 today, and we noticed that Satan told Jesus that authority over all the earth had been “turned over” to him. Exactly when that dominion over the earth was turned over to him, we are not told. But we do know that in the beginning, Adam was given dominion over every living creature on the earth. So, did God take it away from Adam and hand it over to Satan?

jdc

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Hi John,

Wow, this is a completely new thought. If Satan and the serpent are connected somehow in the scene in the Garden of Eden, how would the way that God dealt with them be perceived? No one on heaven or on earth knew that Satan’s heart was evil except God, so if God gave dominion of the earth over to Satan after Adam’s sin, it would have appeared as if God was rewarding Satan for his obedience, wouldn’t it? But then, how does that fit in with God cursing the serpent?

I was also wondering if dominion over the earth could have changed after the flood. It seems that man still had dominion over the earth until the flood, after which, animals began eating each other, and man began eating meat. Or could it have happened when Cain killed Abel? After that, the ground was cursed and man had to labor for his food. Just some thoughts I was having thinking on your email this morning.

Vince

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Hi Vince,

As with most things God does, man’s loss of things like dominion over the earth was probably gradual and went in stages, such as the ones you mentioned.

As for God cursing the serpent, we can only guess how that was seen in heaven. If He cursed the serpent, and yet rewarded Satan (assuming he was involved), it certainly would have confused the creatures in heaven about what was good and what was evil, and what true justice is. But then, that was the case anyway, wasn’t it, until the Son was revealed?  Beyond that, until Jesus helps us, we can only wonder at how it all played out.

jdc

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6/24/12

Note: Sister Willie, a dear mother in Christ, laughingly told Pastor John early on that he would never finish this book because the subject was eternal and God kept opening new things to our understanding.  It became a standing joke among us, over the years, whenever Pastor John mentioned that he might be close to finishing it.  Sister Willie would just smile at him, and we all would start laughing.

Hi Everyone!

Sister Wilkie and I just had a wonderful conversation about the scriptures she read in Psalm 90 this morning.

Then, when I told her I was here at the computer working hard on Chapter 6, she started laughing...kind of hard. So hard, in fact, she was ready to stop talking and get off the phone.  She even had me laughing about it, even after I asked her to pray for me and this chapter!

Now, can anyone tell me why she did that to me? :)

jdc

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6/25/12

The latest excerpt of the Father and Son book that we received is wonderful, John! One bows to another because they discern and recognize their authority over them.  The greater, then, receives the lesser. When Jesus did not bow to Satan, it was because he (Jesus) knew he was in authority over Satan, even if Satan did not know.  It really pays to know who and who not to bow to, and only Jesus has that kind of wisdom from the Father. If Satan knew who really Jesus was, he would have bowed to Jesus.

Yes, Jesus Christ was hidden from the world and from heaven’s creatures, too. It was a different world before Pentecost, like the difference in this world before and after the flood. For souls without the Pentecost experience, this is a world so different from the world God’s saints are living in, and that empty world is the world of Christianity.

Billy M

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6/29/12

Subject: “Bowing”

Hey Pastor John,

I am still thinking on this part of Chapter 6. There is a statement on page two that struck me. “He (Satan) may have had no love for Christ, but he loved God, at least the God he thought God was.” I never thought about Satan as loving God. Always seemed he wanted to advance himself. It also seemed that Satan had no love for man at all! He loved his job as prosecutor. Thank God for Jesus! Thank God for the Love of God! These things are so good. I know I have loved wrong things, sincerely thinking it was God. I am thankful God has had mercy on me. I love learning more of God!

Thank you, Pastor John for your work.

Sue

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7/7/12

John,

I have a question, is what happened to Jesus different than what happens to us when we receive the holy Ghost? I know that the Son of God left his place and came and took on the flesh of Jesus and lived through him, and I know it says that they saw the Spirit descend on Jesus like a dove when the Son took up his abode. But that was not just like receiving the holy Ghost right? I mean, the Son of God actually lived through Jesus.

And I know that when we receive the holy Ghost, the Son said that he and the Father come with it and take up their abode with us.  I don’t really know if I am asking this right, but the physical Son of God was in the body of Jesus right? And not in us right?

Thanks.

Stuart

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Thanks for the question, Stuart.  This is a question that most of us have had when we became aware of the fact that God had a Son Before Mary did.

It’s a difficult thing for us mortals to comprehend. Perhaps the best way to consider it is to compare it to our natural birth. Every one of us received human life when were were born, but we are all different. We each have our own personality and abilities. It is the same when we receive the holy Spirit. We all receive eternal life when we receive the Spirit, but it is different for each of us. We are born again in Christ with our own spiritual personalities, purpose, and gifts.

Jesus was born again as the Son of God because the Son of God himself came and took up his abode in Jesus’ temple, and then, Mary’s son and God’s Son became one person. We, too, are born again as “sons of God”, but each of us has a place in our heavenly Father’s kingdom different from that of Jesus. He is “Lord of all”, and we are all under his authority.

As for the Son “physically” coming into Jesus, I know what you are trying to say, but there was nothing physical, nothing human, about the Son of God who was in heaven with the Father in the beginning. He, like his Father, was a spiritual being, not a physical one. But yes, the person of the Son came from heaven and made his home in the body of Mary’s Son.

That’s about the best I can do with that question. Such things are far beyond us, and only with the mind of Christ can we begin to comprehend them.  What God did in Christ is just beyond us, Brother Stuart. And that’s a good thing. If it had not been beyond us, it couldn’t have saved us from sin.

Pastor John

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7/11/12

John,

After reading the new section and scanning several times through chapter two, I have a question concerning what you wrote about Satan’s nature being different from his external body after he sinned. Today, man’s body/nature is sinful, but what was the nature of Adam’s body before he sinned? Not sinful? Was the nature of Adam’s body changed when he sinned (to be sinful)? Or have human bodies always had the nature of sin in them, including Adam’s body before he ate the fruit (just ignorant of sin before that)? Just wondering after reading the new section.

Thanks!

Lyn

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Hi Lyn.

Good question! It appears that you are confused about the body and the nature being one and the same. They are not. They are closely connected, but they are not the same thing. The natural, human body is not sinful, even now; it is just carnal, material substance, something made of flesh. It is neither good nor evil. It is man’s nature that is evil, and that nature is in man’s “heart” – not his physical heart, but deep down in his soul. How do I say it? It is impossible to describe, apart from the body, but it is not the body!

Adam’s physical body remained the same after he sinned, just as Satan’s beautiful heavenly body was unchanged. But the nature within man’s body (and Satan’s) “fell”, and became perverse. So, after they sinned, both man and Satan continued to look the way they had always looked, even though they were very much changed, within.

Hope that helps a little.

jdc

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7/24/12

Hey,

I loved reading all of the old notes you recently found from your years of study of the Father and the Son . . . but this is my favorite one:

Spiritual warfare is warfare against what we are not; it is not warfare against what we are.

Wow.

Keep up the good work! I think it ALL needs to go in the book!

Donna

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7/24/12

Hey Pastor John!

I found this today while editing your Thought for Today book. You wrote this back in 2005. It is something, how I understand it so much better now after learning about the Father and the Son. This became one of my favorite stories after you read it a few Sundays ago as part of our reading in Chapter 6. I have listened to the cd on “Sifted” several times. Here is the TFT you wrote back in 2005.

Thought for Today

12-16

“Lovest Thou Me?”

One major flaw in the English language is that it has but one word for “love”, when in fact there are many different kinds of love: the holy love of God, the love of friends or brothers, romantic love, and perhaps others.

The Greek language did a far better job at providing the speaker with alternatives when it came to referring to “love”. The Greeks had completely different words for completely different kinds of love. The word for God’s holy love, agape, does not even closely resemble the word for romantic love, eros, etc. When translating from the Greek into English, these different words for love are usually translated simply as “love”, and the reader is left to his own devises to determine what kind of love is being talked about. Most of the time, the kind of love intended is easy to determine. Other times, such as in John 21:15-17, knowing that there are different kinds of love being referred to by Jesus is critical to understanding what touched Peter’s heart and made him so heavy with grief.

In John 21:15, the resurrected Lord asked Peter, “Do you love me”, using the word agape. This means that Jesus was asking Peter if he loved him with the pure, unshakable love of God. Now, Peter was not the same man that he was the night before Jesus had died. That night, Peter had boasted before the other disciples of his absolute devotion to Jesus, saying that he would even die for the Master. Not long after that, intimidated by fear of capture and torture, Peter found himself cursing and swearing that he had never even known Jesus. This humiliating event had crushed Peter’s boastful spirit. That same night, when Peter realized what he had done, he rushed out of the high priests’ courtyard, we are told, and “wept bitterly.” He was not now so self-assured.

Therefore, in response to Jesus’ inquiry, Peter could only say, “Lord, you know I love you as a friend.” What the English cannot tell you is that Peter changed the word Jesus used for “love” to the kind of love a brother or a friend holds for another. Peter could no longer boast of his deep devotion to Christ; he had learned that what he thought he was and what he really was might be two different things. Still, he could not deny that he loved Jesus; he knew that in his heart there lived a love for Jesus of some kind. It might not be the kind of love that never fails, the love of God, but he knew he loved the Lord. So, he avoided Jesus’ question by replying with a different word for “love”.

Shortly afterward, Jesus repeated his question: “Simon Peter, do you love me [with the love of God]?” Again, Peter avoided the issue and replied, “Lord, you know I love you [as a friend].”

Finally, Jesus turned to Peter and asked, “Peter, do you love me?”, but this time Jesus changed the word he used for “love” to that which Peter had been using. This time, Jesus was asking Peter, “Do you really love me as a friend?”

We are told that when Jesus questioned Peter’s claim that he loved him as a friend, “Peter was grieved when Jesus said to him the third time, ‘Lovest thou me?’”

The reason Peter was so grieved at the question was not that Jesus had asked it three times. Jesus had not asked the same question three times, even though the English makes it seem so. In the original language, at this third time, Jesus had asked Peter an entirely new question! He had asked Peter if he was telling the truth when he claimed to love Jesus as a friend!

After the episode of denying that he knew the Lord, Peter now possessed the humility necessary to admit that he was not wise enough or good enough to even love the Lord as a friend – if that had been the case. He was now a broken, not a boastful man. He was no longer confident in himself. At the same time, Peter felt in the deepest recesses of his heart that he loved Jesus – at the very least as a friend – and he could not deny it.

He humbled himself before Jesus and said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you as a friend.” In other words, Peter was saying, “Lord, I know that you can prove me wrong if I am deceived again about myself and my devotion to you, but with all my heart I believe that I love you as a friend. Have mercy on me.”

Peter was right. He did love Jesus, and I believe that he and the other disciples loved Jesus with all the love that humans can have for God. But they would need a far greater love for Jesus than that if they were to be able to stand for the gospel that would be entrusted to them. Paul would later say, “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the holy Ghost which is given to us” (Rom. 5:5). From that, we can see that until the holy Ghost came on the day of Pentecost, none of Jesus’ disciples loved him with the love of God. They couldn’t have loved him so, for the love of God had not yet been shed into their hearts. That is why on the night of the Lord’s arrest, “They all forsook him and fled.” They loved Jesus as a friend, but they could not yet love him with the love of God. After the Spirit came, those same disciples did have the love of God for Jesus in their hearts, and they proved that love many times over by suffering as they did for his name.

In a sermon at Grandma’s farm in 1981, I pointed out to the saints there that at the Last Supper, when Jesus announced to his disciples that one of them would betray him, we are told that in response to this revelation from Jesus, they all began to ask, “Is it I?” The reason all of his disciples asked, “Is it I?”, is that they all had entertained the idea at one time or another. They all had considered betraying Jesus. At various times and places, Jesus had rebuked them all, either individually or as group. At various times and places Jesus had taught doctrines that shook them to the foundation of their souls. Many times, Jesus had put his disciples’ love for him through fiery tests, and it had almost been overwhelmed more than once. When he told them that one of them would betray him, they all felt shame. They all knew what they, at different times, had felt.

If the disciples who walked with the Lord while he was on earth could not love Jesus with the love of God before they received the holy Ghost, then neither can any one else. You may love Jesus as a friend, and that is a good thing for anyone to do, including Peter, but that will not suffice. No man is able to endure the persecutions that obeying Jesus always brings without having in his heart the kind of love that only the holy Ghost baptism puts in it.

You need the baptism of the holy Ghost because you need the love of God. You will fail if you love Jesus as a friend, or as a brother, just as Peter did when the fiery trial came. But you cannot possibly love Jesus any other way without the holy Ghost baptism that sheds God’s holy love into your heart. What devotion to Jesus that men claim without the holy Ghost baptism is only as dependable as was Peter’s claim of devotion on the night Jesus was arrested. He learned the hard way what we can learn from his example, if we are wise. Having the love of God for the Savior is not ours to claim; it is God’s to give. Ask Him today to help you love Jesus as only He can make you love him.

==========

7/28/12

Hey John,

Those old notes you found for the Father and Son book were so good! I don’t know how you are ever going to finish this book!  :-) I have a question about this paragraph below, especially the part in bold:

“Salvation is for the body, and when Jesus returns, he will reward his faithful children with spiritual bodies which belong to the new nature we have been given, new, holy bodies which are ‘like his glorified body’ (Phip. 3:21).  Salvation, then, for the saints is to be counted worthy to receive a new, glorified body when Jesus returns; that is the hope of every child of God.”

So, are you referring to the body of Christ? or the spiritual body we will receive when he returns? The way it reads to me in the paragraph it sounds like it should read “Salvation is for the body of Christ”.

Thanks

Stuart

==========

No, Stuart. What that means is that the salvation for which God’s people are waiting is for their physical bodies, not their souls. Their souls have already been saved from sinfulness and made holy. Now, we are waiting for our new bodies, which will match the holy work that God has already done in our hearts.

Quite a few people said that was a new thought to them, but my father taught me that truth many years ago. He mentioned it often, and it is an important point. Jesus is not coming back the second time to deal with sin (Heb. 9:28), which has to do with the inner man, but to bring salvation (new bodies) to those who are looking for him. These bodies of flesh will be changed into bodies like Jesus’ glorified body (Phip. 3:21).

Here is the revised paragraph, by the way:

The salvation which Jesus promised to bring with him when he returns is for the body, not the soul. His reward for faithful believers will be new bodies that belong to their new nature. He will, as Paul said, “transform our lowly body into the likeness of his glorious body” (Phip. 3:21). That is the unique hope of every person “born again” into the family of God.

Thanks for the question. A lot of people asked it.

jdc

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7/28/12

Subject: The Body and the Nature section of the Father and Son book.

Hey.

This section seems to cover what is necessary without getting deep into it and hindering the forward progress of the chapter.

While reading this, it struck me how extraordinary it is that Paul wrote those words from 1Corinthians 15 about various kinds of bodies. I don’t think he would ever have thought to write anything like the Father and Son book, for things weren’t in the mess yet that they are now. But nevertheless, here is the Spirit having him write about types of bodies. Sometimes it feels so much like God is pulling together so many things in this book, and it is hard to grasp and hold on to it all. Constantly, a particular point comes up (like today, that salvation is for the body) that was the subject of a tract or a sermon or some other writing, years ago. Excellent as each of these things were as an article by itself, in the Father and Son book, they seem to be in the process of being woven together into a beautiful tapestry of truth and light. It just makes me feel so good inside at times that it is breath-taking, and one has to stand in awe of what God is allowing us to see and understand, and you to get down on paper. The truth has a “proves itself” quality that I love.

Damien

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9/5/12

Hi Pastor John,

I have been feasting and pondering on all the wonderful gatherings we have been having over the past couple of months. It is amazing to feel all the wonderful feeling that have been poured out on us lately. I want to be found worthy and doing my part to receive such wonderful blessing from our Father and His Son.

I was driving to work this morning and put in our July Songs CD that Brother Earl and Sister Betty have been putting together each month and giving to everyone. What wonderful music we have! On track 2, Brother Darren is singing, “I’ll Give You More”. I just had to write down the words because I want to make sure I understand what the Father is telling us through His Son by His Spirit in these songs that He is pouring out on us lately. Here are the words:

I’ll Give You More

I made a promise that’s for everyone.

If you will just worship and honor my Son,

Then I’ll give more blessing than you can receive.

Yes, that is my promise.  Oh, do you believe?

Chorus

I’ll give you more of just what you need.

I’ll give you more; you’ll not lack anything.

More of my Spirit, more of my Son,

More understanding to make us all one,

More of the good things this life has to give.

I’ll give you more.

Where is that nation that stood rich and strong?

They gave my Son honor, but now that is gone.

Their riches have left them; their power has, too,

All because of my promise, but it still stands true.

Chorus

When you are together and the spirit is free,

You’re in the best place that you could be,

When you love the feelings and the truth that you hear,

When you love the brothers that I have put near.

Pastor John, what an honor! When I heard Darren sing, “Where is that nation that stood rich and strong?” all I could do was fall on my face in Spirit and pray, “God, let me value what you are doing for me and us! Let me stay humble and remember where everything I am has come from, and who has made it happen for us all. Don’t let me become proud of something that I could not even begin to do or have without you. My heart hurts and longs to know you and your Son!”

My my! My heart aches at the thought of not holding on to what He has done for us, and losing out on this wonderful life He has made available to us. The meetings this weekend were special. We want to be in a condition to receive all that He has for us when He opens the door, as He did this past weekend for so many. There is nothing in this world worth losing what God has in store for His children.  My prayer is, “God, help us take in, and walk in what you are showing us. I want to live in your life!”

Stuart

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9/9/12

Pastor John to the congregation

Hi there.

This “Pearl of Wisdom” from a sermon by my father almost fifty years ago communicates what I have been trying to say about the wonderful change of nature that takes place within our natural bodies when we receive the life of God, the holy Spirit:

“When a person gets right with God and receives the holy Ghost baptism, he can do anything in the world he wants to and thank God for it because the Spirit brings with it God’s nature, and God’s nature only wants what is good.”

Think on these things; they are “altogether lovely”.

jdc

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9/27/12

Hey John,

I was listening to the Bruised Reed sermon from 2008, and you were saying that the Father and Son book is 90 pages long, and it keeps expanding. You said something like, “I’d like to get it (from God) and give it to you.” Brother Glen said, “I would like to have it.” Ha!  Little did we know how wonderful it would get . . . and is getting.

I sat there and laughed with everyone on the cd and thought how brother Glen (and ALL the others now gone on to be with the Lord) may now be beholding Jesus sitting beside His Father in power and majesty, and you know, Creation didn’t fall apart while Jesus was here on this earth. Creation did what it was created to do. It makes me happy to think about that.

I guess brother Glenn beat us to the end of your book. I bet he could tell us a thing or two, especially about the joys of the Lord.

Hey to all there!

Billy M

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10/10/12

Daddy,

Was Satan one of these two anointed ones.  From Zechariah 4:12-14 ESV:

“And a second time I answered and said to him, “What are these two branches of the olive trees, which are beside the two golden pipes from which the golden oil is poured out?” He said to me, “Do you not know what these are?” I said, “No, my lord.” Then he said, “These are the two anointed ones who stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”” http://bible.us/Zech4.12.ESV

Do we know who they were/are?

Thanks!

Bekah

==========

Hi Bekah.

I believe that Satan was one of those cherubs, or something very much like them, even though the names of the heavenly cherubs who hover over God’s heavenly “Mercy Seat” are not revealed. We know that Satan was once in heaven, in God’s very presence. And Ezekiel (28:14) says of Satan, “Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth, and I have set thee so. Thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.”

Logically, we can only say that Satan may have been one of those two especially anointed cherubs stationed at the throne of God, but if we trust our souls to mere human logic, we will likely not believe the Spirit when (instead of using logic) it simply reveals knowledge to us in that sweet “still, small voice” of Jesus.

Daddy

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10/12/12

Pastor John to the congregation

Greetings!

It appeared in our translation of Luke 10 today that God may have given Jesus a vision of Satan being cast out of heaven during the time the disciples were out preaching the gospel at Jesus’ command. The Son was learning, but was this the moment he learned what would be done to Satan?

jdc

==========

By time of Luke 10, Jesus knew that Satan was evil, but did he know what his Father would do about it? Jesus must have prayed often about it, wondering what it would be like in heaven, with Satan still there when he returned home and took his place beside the Father.  I still have assumptions in me about who knew what, including the Son.  Jesus learned obedience (Heb. 5:8), and learning about Satan was a real experience for him.

Damien

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Father and Son Emails – 2013

1/21/13

Subject: God’s Voice

Hi Pastor John,

I am so thankful for what God has done for us! He sent His Son so that we could be re-created in this body, here on this earth. Without the Spirit that His Son purchased for us with his own suffering here in this earthly body, we all would be lost. He did it because he loved us and wanted us to be where he is with his Father, and he knew the only way we could do that was by being re-created and filled with the same Spirit he and his Father have.

What an honor it is to be a partaker of such heavenly gifts, receiving and being recreated and filled with his Spirit! When he gave us the Spirit, he gave us everything we need to be counted worthy to see him face to face one day. The Spirit is not just an option, an extra blessing; it is a necessity, for we cannot know God or live holy lives without it. He sent the Spirit to guide us into all truth and give us the strength to do what He puts in our hearts.

Too many times I have seen and heard things like, “I wish I would have done this, or I felt like I should have done that” (and I have said it myself), and when we first get the Spirit, we do have to learn God’s voice, and sometime we may choose the wrong thing.  But we learn from that, not just what was right and wrong, but learn God’s voice so that the next time, we will follow the voice and do the right thing.

I want to honor him by following his voice and keeping my life clean before him. I want to hear his voice and move right away, and not hesitated and wonder and doubt what I am hearing from him. I know I can do that. I know we can do that, by keeping him first in our lives and not letting the things of this world rob us from hearing his voice, or giving in to some pleasure that makes this body feel good for a little while but pollutes the soul.

I owe him everything, and I love what he has done for us, and it is in our hearts to do what honors him if we are thankful for what he done for us. I want to keep my ears (my heart) clean and ready and waiting to hear the voice of my Father and his Son.

Stuart

==========

1/22/13

Amen Stuart. Thank you for writing that, for it is exactly what is in my heart. I love it.

I want to honor him by following his voice and keeping my life clean before him. I want to hear his voice and move right away, and not hesitated and wonder and doubt what I am hearing from him. I know I can do that.  I know we can do that, by keeping him first in our lives and not letting the things of this world rob us from hearing his voice, or giving in to some pleasure that makes this body feel good for a little while but pollutes the soul.

I owe him everything, and I love what he has done for us, and it is in our hearts to do what honors him if we are thankful for what he done for us.  I want to keep my ears (my heart) clean and ready and waiting to hear the voice of my Father and his Son.

Margaret

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2/12/13

Thank you for reading the beginning of Chapter 6 with us tonight. I still am amazed at reading the thoughts in this book, thoughts from Jesus which most people on earth have never had before, and here we are – reading, understanding, and loving them! Paragraph after paragraph, page after page. What we read tonight is loaded with good food for God’s people, and I loved every bit of it.

Donna N

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Hey Donna.

I love the fact that we are so blessed that when we, as a group, read such things as the Father and the Son book, there are many helpful comments made and (fearless!) criticisms offered along the way. Jesus really has made us a family in the Spirit. That is such a blessing!

I am very thankful for everyone who participated, but especially for those who made helpful comments.

Now, on to the next section!

jdc

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Yes!

There is hardly a paragraph in this book that does not contain more truth than most people hear in a lifetime. It is hard to describe, but there are so many questions answered and issues dealt with by this book which were things I thought about, even before the age of ten. There was no one around me who thought much about them, much less could answer them, so it was a personal and lonely experience to think those things. But in this book, here are the questions, here are the thoughts, and here are so many answers, and the humility to simply believe God when human words fall short in explaining God’s age-long mysteries. It shows me how God has been working in my life from the beginning, preparing me to be here and to hear these things. Precious!  That is the word!

Damien

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2/20/13

Subject: Chapter 6 reading

This is good stuff, John.  I don’t think anyone looking for the truth will have any problem with what you are writing in the book, and if they do, maybe they will get in contact with you!  I love it.  Thank you.  I really enjoyed the testimony from you about how your father helped you.  It was wonderful, sober, and real, and a help.  I love sound doctrine, truth that will keep you every day.

Thank you, John.

Stuart

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2/26/13

Subject: Mary

Pastor John,

As I’m typing one of the Iron Kingdom books, namely Mary through the Centuries, I am amazed at how highly exalted she is by Christians. I am so thankful that God has not let me be impressed with Christianity. After reading chapter two of the Father and Son book this weekend, and reading in Matthew this morning, I see how commonsensical, down to earth, and non-religious Jesus is. He is more approachable than Christians have made Mary to be.

Anna D

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Hi Anna,

There are those who think that the next great theological step for Catholicism will be to declare Mary somehow to be the third person of the Trinity, so that there will be a holy family in heaven. If so, it will be a kind of an effeminization of God, like the effeminization of men that is taking place in this culture now.

jdc

==========

Gross.

Anna

==========

Amen to that.

jdc

==========

2/26/13

Subject: Centurion/Jesus

Hi, Pastor John:

You were teaching us lately, from the Father and Son book, that no one knew Jesus until God revealed him at Pentecost. I had a thought, “But what about the Centurion?”  So I read KJV to see what he said.  Matthew 27:54 says this: “Now when the centurion, and they that were with him watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

I looked up your translation of that verse, it says this: “Now, when the centurion and those guarding Jesus with him saw the earthquake and the other things that happened, they were stricken with great fear and said, ‘This really was a son of God!’”

In our Greek class we are learning our articles, “a” and “the”. If the original Greek used the definite article “the”, then it would give the impression that the Centurion knew Jesus as the Son of God, instead of thinking of him as simply a holy man, a son of one of the gods. I now know that the article “the” is not in the original Greek of the Centurion’s statement, and your translation reflects that.  Just knowing that brought more value and validity to our reading.

You have taught us that no one knew “The” Son, until “The” God revealed him when “The” Life of God entered into men [on the day of Pentecost]. What the centurion really said is evidence of that.  It was good looking up these scriptures.

Billy M

==========

That’s right, Billy.  When we get to Chapter 6 of the Father and Son book, you will see the section (not proofed or edited yet) titled “A Son of God, Not the Son of God”.

jdc

==========

2/27/13

Subject: Centurion/Jesus

John,

The concept that no one knew the Son before Pentecost seems to be hard for us to keep near and dear to our heart.  The scriptures really have to be expounded on to take this in, or it doesn’t seem plausible.

After reading this section, I was contemplating if Satan even knows now who the Son is.

Wendell

==========

Hi Wendell

Satan does not know the Father and the Son. He can’t. Most probably, Satan feels misunderstood and mistreated. I have wondered many times if he thinks God rejected him and exalted Jesus instead because Jesus slandered him to God and to others. Jesus certainly said some bad things about Satan while here among us. The thing is, though, that everything Jesus said was true, even if Satan does not think so.

jdc

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John,

That really makes you fearful and be compassionate.  God is not mocked. Would to God that I could always remember your words: “What God does to a person is enough.”

It brings back words that the Lord spoke to me when I was being ridiculed and made fun of for no reason by a group of people at work one day, and I asked the Lord why.  He told me, “They have rejected my council.” It instantly made me prayerful for those that had abused me, and my thoughts were corrected.

Wendell

==========

3/6/13

Subject: the god of this world is Satan

If Satan is the god of this world, then could the “god” of Isaiah 13:19 be Satan?  “And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty and the pride of the Chaldeans, will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.”  The Father (“Lord”) consistently declares that “God” is the one who destroyed those cities, as in Amos 4:11: “I [the Father] have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, . . . yet have you not returned to me, says the Lord.”  And in Jeremiah 50:40b: “. . . as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighbors, says the Lord.”

te

==========

You know, Token, that is possible! Makes all kinds of sense.  We should give that some serious thought.

Daddy

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3/7/13

Pastor John to the congregation

Subject: The question someone asked me last night about Proverbs 8:22 (”God created me in the beginning”), during our reading of Chapter 4, where I translated the Hebrew word kanah as “created me” instead of “acquired me”:

When this word, kanah, is applied to people, the meaning is always something like, “to buy”, “to possess”, or “to acquire”. But since there is nowhere for God to go buy anything, the only way He can “acquire” something is to create it. Thus, my translation of Proverbs 8:22.

Other examples of this word being applied to God and possibly being translated as “create” are Genesis 14:19, 22 (”Creator” of heaven and earth), Deuteronomy 36:6 (”created” you), and Psalm 139:13 (”created” my inward parts).

I just wanted to point out those scriptures to you.

jdc

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3/8/13

Hey Pastor John

I hope everyone there is doing fine.  I have enjoyed the Father and Son teaching.  It is so good.  I feel so blessed to hear what we have been hearing about the Father and Son.

Bro. TH

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3/21/13

Subject: The Son learning

John,

Did the Son of God know all the good and evil that was going on in heaven while he was still there, before he came to earth? I am particularly thinking about during the time of Job.

Jimmy

==========

When did the Father let the Son know anything? We can’t say, but we do know that while he was on earth, the Son went through a process of learning (Heb. 5:8). So, why couldn’t he have gone through a process of learning while he was still with the Father in heaven? I am certain that he did, but as for exactly when the Son learned any particular thing, no one can say.

jdc

==========

3/13/13

Subject: Satan/last night

Hi Pastor John,

After watching the pomp, form, and ceremonies of the new Pope being set in his kingdom, I had a thought that all Satan wants is to be seen.  Satan’s kingdom is a kingdom to be heard and seen but without any power to get a person ready to meet God in peace. I believe that Uncle Joe once said that Christians who don’t have much money can’t be as wrong as the Catholics, no matter how hard they try. And you said after that, “It takes a lot of money to be a good Christian (because it takes a lot of money to be really good at ceremonial religion).”  I was so sad watching the multitudes in Rome pouring their hearts out to a man that cannot save them. I can only imagine what Satan was thinking. Satan’s kingdom is only a kingdom of the exterior (flesh), but God’s Kingdom is always like Darren’s song says, “A Matter Of The Heart”.

I was so fragile when you first came into my life that only God, through you, knew how to reach the inner most chambers of my heart and perform a spiritual surgery that rescued my life. The surgery in 2009 on my kidney saved only my physical life, but the surgery of Christ in 2001 saved my soul.

Reading these chapters from the Father and the Son book has been so wonderful. I remember that you came to KY sometime, after that blessed weekend at the beach, to read the same chapter to us that you began reading last night. I believe it was a Thursday night, on October 8th; I had just had my kidney surgery the Friday before, on October 2nd. Richard came to KY, too, because he wanted to hear, and especially to feel what this chapter had to say.  He wanted to be touched like Rob and others had been touched by the power of God at the beach while working on the book. It was such a blessing to see Richard! Look at the life God has given him (and us), because he (and we) wanted the holy things of God!

I could go on, but what such sweet feelings and peace I felt while reading along with you all! It is an honor to hear such words.

Billy M

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3/21/13

Who is Really the Greater?

Hi John,

Yesterday about lunch time I took a break from work and I opened my desk drawer and took out this letter. It was a Broadcaster, “Who Is Really the Greater (that is, the more blessed)?” As I was reading it, you were talking about a minister in Iowa that you had come in contact with. What caught my attention was that the people who brought that minister to the Lord belonged to a congregation taught by a man named Sowders, from whom (you believe) your father learned the truth about the Father and the Son.  It’s a shame that you never got to asked your father if that is where he got those wonderful truths from.

I thought that was interesting, since we are reading the Father and Son book that the Lord has given to you. I am so thankful for the order and authority that God has established among us. He has done a great thing among us. As long as we trust him and follow him, I don’t think He will let us be fooled by any wrong spirit.

Thank you, John.

Stuart

==========

3/28/13

Pastor John to the Congregation

Dear friends,

As I wrap up my work on Chapter 5, I have some thoughts left over which at some point in the past I cut out of the chapter, and now cannot find a place to put them back in. They were so good that I didn’t want to just delete them without sending them out to you. I feel so rich and blessed in the Lord! I sincerely hope he sees me, and you, that way.

Now, on to Chapter 6!

My love to you all, and good night!

Pastor John

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Chapter 5 Cuts

The Son of God spoke only the words his Father gave him to speak (John 8:28; 14:10; 17:8) and did only what he saw his Father do (Jn. 5:19).

Everyone who truly believes that all wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Christ Jesus believes him when he speaks, whatever he says, and when they believe what he says, they are made “free indeed”.

It is not that people are liberated by abandoning their own thoughts and ways; that suggests that they can be liberated by their own will and effort. Rather, with God’s holy truth, Jesus liberates people from the bondage to their own darkened thoughts and ways, and he is the only one who can.

If we think we know anything about God without the Son, what we really think, in the depths of our heart, is that we can know everything about God without him.

God is high and mighty, but unlike the “high and mighty” of earth, God dwells with the lowly (Isa. 57:15).

Most of the Jews considered Jesus to be cursed (Isa. 53:4) because they did not understand his kind of righteousness, and anyone who followed him and partook of God’s righteousness were judged to be unfit to live (e.g., Acts 22:22). Sometimes, they were even put to death, as Jesus was.

The mere thought of abandoning one’s own righteousness terrifies the best of humankind, as it did Job, because the only result from that which man can imagine is something really, really bad, eternally bad.

In order for Satan or any evil spirit to influence us, we must have fellowship with them in something false about God.

At that time, only the Son shared the Father’s kind of life; therefore, the Son alone knew God, and when attacked for confessing that truth, the Son told his adversaries, “If I say that I don’t know Him, I’ll be a liar like you!” (Jn. 8:55).

jdc

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4/1/13

Subject: Living by doing God’s will

Mornin’ Bro. John!

The section of the Father and Son book about the crucifixion of Jesus was so very good. It reminded me of what the Lord told me a few years ago: “Even in dying, Jesus was living because he was doing the will of His Father.” I really loved what you wrote, after quoting these verses from John 11:

51. But this he did not say of himself, but being high priest at that time, he prophesied that Jesus was about to die for the nation . . .

53. So, from that day, they plotted to kill him.

You wrote, “Satan and these elders of Israel all thought that the Spirit was decreeing, through the high priest, that Jesus had to die in order to rescue the nation from the Romans. What the Spirit was actually decreeing was that Jesus had to die to rescue Israel from sin.”

It is just amazing to ponder what men who hated Jesus were thinking as they fulfilled God’s plan for His dear Son. God was never out of control over what happened to His Son, whether man saw or understood it at all. Nothing appeared as love in man’s eyes, but God was loving His Son and us the whole time. And still is. The Father and Son (and us) – an amazing love story. Whew!

Sandy

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4/1/13

Replies to “The Crucifixion of Jesus”

John,

Who could believe what you wrote in “The Crucifixion of Jesus” about the Father and His relationship with His Son and with Satan? Only somebody who has been touched by God. I feel so thankful to read and know what was really going on.  When Satan was doing the work, he thought was pleasing to God! Also, it lets me feel the great love God and His Son had for us, and for each other, to make a way for us to be called sons of God and to share their life with them.

God’s patience is terrifying, as you said. My prayer is, “God, have mercy on us and keep us from being used to do evil, thinking we are doing good.” We will be used for good if God has mercy on us lets us know the truth.  That is really what we want in our hearts.

Stuart

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Oh my, “The Crucifixion of Jesus” was really touching and really terrifying. It made me cry. It made me speak in tongues, and it made me pray to have a tender heart like God’s. I know you went through something writing it. Thank you.

Cris

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The section of your book, “The Crucifixion of Jesus” just made me tingle all over! I’ve read it twice, once out loud to Kay, and it is very powerful. It brings so many things together.

Damien

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I like the section “The Crucifixion of Jesus”, a lot. I watched some of the movie tonight, “The Greatest Story Ever Told”.  I am not sure when it was made, but it was an old movie.  It went through the story of Jesus from his birth to his resurrection.  Just watching the story of what happened to Jesus was sad. He was offering people a different life, one where they could live peacefully.  But they did not want it.  That is what is being offered now, and people still don’t want it.  Not the real life of peace with God.

Some thoughts while reading this section:

1. I like The section on page two where you talk about Satan and his sons not loving the real God or Son, but that they serve a god of their own imaginations, using the name “Christ” in the title of that false religion.

2. That was a really, really touching section at the end of the section, especially the way you worded the part about God’s selflessness.

3. God had Satan carrying out his plan in the death of Jesus.  He was still pulling Leviathan around with that hook! Boy, Satan sure was deceived ... big time!

4. Jesus knew the plan was for himself to die and to be with God. He could have called those legions of angels, but that wouldn’t have been fulfilling the plan that God had for him. My, that takes some faith, to be able to go through with a plan that consists of having your life taken away, knowing you could get out of it if you want to, but you choose not to.

This is great!

Julie A

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I could not help but cry when you wrote in “The Crucifixion of Jesus” about the heavens being bent so that God could be closer to His dying Son. It gave John 3:16 a whole new meaning for me. God really, truly loves us, and wants to share His life with us; (true) Righteousness, (true) Peace, and (true) Joy.

Billy M

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Thanks, John, for writing on the crucifixion. It’s refreshing to read something that has life and solid truths in it. We thank the Father and the Son for sending it to us!

Earl & Betty Pittman

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4/1/13

Good morning.  On the way to the doctor this morning, Ellen and I read your section on “The Crucifixion”.  We talked about two things, and had these questions:

You said that Satan knew Jesus was the Messiah, even though most men did not.  So, we are assuming that Satan knew Jesus was the Messiah, but still had no clue about Jesus being God’s Son?  That correct?  That Satan did not connect the two?

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No one at that time could have made a connection between the Messiah and the pre-existent Son of God.  No one knew the Son existed.  Satan knew that Jesus was a son of God, by virtue of the fact that (1) he, along with all of heaven, knew of Jesus’ divine conception and (2) he and others were referred to as “sons of God”.  Jesus was never addressed as the Son of God by Satan or anyone else before Pentecost, with the meaning of “the pre-existent Son, through whom God created the universe”.

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Also, you said that when Jesus said he could “call legions of angels”, that people and other beings, including Satan “did not believe it”.  Wouldn’t angels “feel it and be on standby” because they would believe it?   Wouldn’t Satan and angels believe that Jesus could call and the Father answer?

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By that time in Jesus’ life, I don’t know of anyone who would have believed Jesus had much pull left with God.  And after his arrest and cruel abuse, he looked even more pathetic and powerless.  At that point, it certainly didn’t look like God cared much about him, did it?

The secret to understanding the things I am writing, Gary, is to be fully persuaded in your heart that until God’s kind of life was given; that is, until men received the Spirit at Pentecost, no one knew there was such a thing as the Son of God.  Until we humble ourselves to the truth of the new birth, and how much we needed it, everything God says to us will be cloudy and hard to understand.

jdc

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4/2/13

Pastor John

I finished reading the excerpt from your book, “The Crucifixion of Christ” this morning. Very good. I hope this question isn’t too annoying because I’m sure it’s been asked & answered – maybe even by me! -- but I forgot the answer: Why do you write that Satan knew Jesus was the promised Messiah? Is it because of OT prophecies?

Name Withheld

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We are not told exactly how, but Israel knew that there was an Anointed One (”Messiah”) who was coming, and who would be a great and everlasting king (from Daniel). The prophet Simeon, for example, was satisfied when he saw the baby Jesus that he had seen the Lord’s Messiah

Luke 2

25. And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was righteous and devout, earnestly anticipating the comfort of Israel, and the holy spirit was upon him.

26. And it had been revealed to him by the holy spirit that he would not see death before he would see the Lord’s Messiah.

27. And he came by the spirit into the temple, and as the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the requirement of the law,

28. and he took the child into his arms, and he blessed God and said,

29. “Now you can let your slave go, Master, according to your word in peace

30. because my eyes have seen your salvation

31. which you prepared before the face of all peoples,

32. a light leading to revelation for the Gentiles and glory for your people Israel.”

If Israel knew all these things, then Satan certainly did. Satan also knew that Jesus was the one spoken about in the Psalm which said that the Anointed One would be so important to God that God would assign angels to keep him from so much as tripping over a rock. He even quoted that verse to Jesus during the Temptation. No one expected more than one “anointed one” (“Messiah”), and so, if Satan thought “Messiah” at all when he saw Jesus, then he would have thought, the Messiah, just as Simeon did when he saw the infant Jesus.

Pastor John

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4/2/13

Do you think that Satan recognizes the spirit that Jesus gives as the Spirit of God? I wonder how he could justify killing those who were moving under the Spirit of God if he did. Is it even possible for him to discern that kind of life with his kind of life?

Could he still think that Jesus is a son of God?

Name Withheld

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Satan would have no reason to think that Jesus ever was not a son of God. Even the angel at Jesus’ birth called him “son of the most high”. As for Jesus being the Son of God, I am less sure that Satan is convinced of that yet. But if he is not convinced now, I expect that he will be thoroughly convinced after he is cast into the Lake of Fire.

He is angry enough to kill anyone who loves Jesus and has received the Spirit. The last verse in Revelation 12 tells us that. Without having God’s kind of life, though, which is the Spirit that Jesus gives, Satan cannot possibly understand it. So, he may not believe that the Spirit Jesus baptizes with is the real Spirit of God. It certainly is not the kind of spirit that Satan thought God had!

jdc

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4/2/13

Subject: It’s about relationships

Morning Pastor John,

I, too, have read the Crucifixion part of the Father and Son book several times. It always touches me deeply when I think about what Jesus went through. I also think about the doctrine of the Trinity, how it takes away the love of God and the love of the Son!

As a parent, one would much rather go through pain and suffering yourself than to watch your child go through it, especially your only child who was your daily delight! And Jesus was a Son who loved and honored his Father so much that he wanted his Father’s will done! And for both of them to love us so much to make a way to redeem us!

It is all about relationships! The Father and Son had a relationship, and they also wanted a relationship with us! You wrote in one place, “The Father was willing to give Jesus up for us, and Jesus was willing to be given for us.”

Oh my!!! I woke up this morning hearing Gary’s song, “Ask of Me”, in my heart!!

Thank you, John.  This is a wonderful book!

Sue

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4/2/13

Subject: Jesus’ crimes

What you have been writing about the Father and the Son is so good!!!!! The part about “Jesus’ Crimes” is clear as a bell to someone that God has touched and opened their eyes. John, were the men whom Jesus called, “sons of the Devil”, feeling the way Satan their father felt?

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Yes, they did. Otherwise, they would not have been called his sons.

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Did Satan think that Jesus was transgressing the law?  Or did he know better? Or was it that he hated Jesus so much at this point that he was blinded to it?

Thanks,

Stuart

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I have just finished a section which shows how Satan and his sons saw Jesus as disobedient to the law. That was their justification for wanting to kill him.

jdc

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4/4/13

Subject: What are the “Principalities and Powers” for?

Hey Pastor John.

A couple things about the section called, “Principalities and Powers”:

I thought the way Daniel 10 was translated was really good. I could envision that scene in my mind. I wasn’t entirely sure what direction this section was heading in the beginning, but when I read the paragraph at the end that starts with “From the beginning, submission to the authorities. . .” I could see how it came full circle back to Jesus.

I have a question about this sentence: “Every nation on earth has a wicked spiritual ruler, including the United States, and under each of those invisible rulers are other evil powers which are over provinces and states, and over counties, parishes, and perhaps even over towns.” What is the purpose of those rulers? What do they accomplish under Satan’s direction? Do they try people on earth, such as the way Satan did with Job?

I’m looking forward to hearing what you have learned.

Thank you.

Anna

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Very good questions, Anna!

The purpose of Satan, “the god of this world” and the purpose of the angels under him who rule over the nations is to maintain order in a world of stubborn, ungodly humans. John said that “the whole world lies in wickedness”, but human wickedness is different from Satan’s. Satan’s is a much higher-class wickedness than man’s usually is, and he despises the low-class forms of wickedness which he and his angels see among men every day, such as drunkenness and fornication.

Men are petty, self-indulgent, and “carried about with every wind of doctrine”. Satan is none of those things. He and his angels have a difficult time governing men, keeping them from blowing themselves up or just ruining every good thing they have, such as clean air, clean water, and peaceful relationships.

The picture of Satan that Christianity has painted for the world is so far from the truth that it would be comical, except for the millions of souls who believe that silly picture. My book, God Had a Son Before Mary Did, can liberate God’s people from faith in Christianity’s false pictures – if we can just get them to read it!

Jesus said that Satan kingdom was well-organized. But Satan has yet to find the man who will fully submit to him and put things in order on earth (the way Satan wants the order to be). However, Satan will find that man one day, and he will give that man “his seat and his power.” Then that man, whom God calls “the Beast”, will establish “law and order” such as the world has never seen, and he will govern the world as absolute ruler until Jesus returns to initiate his thousand-year reign.

I hope that short summary helps clear things up for you.

Pastor John

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4/5/13

Subject: “Who was Lucifer?” Chapter 6

Bro. John:

This is so very good. I love how you dissected Satan and showed how wrong he was about Jesus. Who knows these things?! God is feeding us manna from heaven with the wisdom we are getting in the writing of the Father and Son book! I want to cherish every word, and love it as He does. It shows us even more how much God loves His Son.

It brought tears to my eyes to read the last line: “The suffering came first, and the glory Jesus received after his resurrection. Satan was wrong about everything.”

And the whole world is wrong without the Spirit guiding. I remember when the Spirit spoke this to me: “When you think, you weaken the Spirit.” While reading “Who is Lucifer” this morning, it dawned on me why this is so true. The Spirit is the Life of God. It requires no thinking – God just IS! And His Son IS who he is. Satan must have done a lot of thinking to be so wrong about who God is or who His Son is. “O, Lucifer! . . . How you are cut down to the earth, O weakener of the nations!”

The contrast that you bring out about the “Light-bringer” and the light (the holy Spirit) which the Son brought, and also what Satan thought and what his ministers portray was so good. Who knows these things?!

Well, needless to say, I was blessed reading this. We are so loved and cared for by our Savior!Sometimes, I don’t even know how to respond to such sweet riches. I suppose the best way is to love it and live it, and stay thankful to be a child of God in the truth.

Sandy :)

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4/5/13

Subject: Lucifer

John, that article on Lucifer (”Light-bringer”) was wonderful. This really stood out to me:

After his encounter with Jesus, and especially afterward, when Jesus began preaching, Satan would have seen Jesus, not himself, in those verses from Isaiah 14. The meaning of “Lucifer” is “light-bringer”, and isn’t that what Jesus claimed that he was, the bringer of light?  Satan had every (wrong) reason to believe that Jesus, not he, was this “light bringer.” Oh the wisdom of God!

This is breathtaking, how possible it is for any of us to be wrong about everything, and yet, think we are right! It makes one feel entirely helpless – which is a good place to be, because when we recognized our helplessness, we can recognize our need of the power and wisdom of God.

I just sat here after reading this and said, “Oh Father, You said You have sealed me and I’m yours. Let it be so.” :)

He’s the only way, John. We can’t get there without the power of God. We will be wrong without it.  Thanks for this.  I REALLY enjoyed it! One of my favorites so far.

Gary

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4/13/13

Subject: What are “Principalities and Powers” for? 2

Hi John,

Your email with Anna made me wonder a few things...

1) Are there divisions in the “principalities and powers” world? For example, certain countries are often contentious with other countries (e.g. North and South Korea, Iran and Israel, etc.). Are some of these contentions inspired by invisible rulers who are also “at odds” with each other?

2) Are spirits of lust, rage, etc. which can inspire (presumably) men to do things that Satan hates (e.g. adultery, school shootings, etc.) at odds with Satan? Does Satan despise some of these spirits the way he despises the men who act under their influence? Or, are all spirits in the invisible world working together under Satan the way he likes it, in very good order?

Thanks,

WT

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Hi WT.

I have pondered over those questions a number of times. Was Hitler’s hatred of Stalin an indication that the “prince of Germany” hated the “prince of Russia”? An even more intriguing question is, can one of the princes in Satan’s kingdom overthrow another and take his place, thus bringing about an overthrow of one earthly government and the establishment of a different one, such as in the American revolution? Or in the case of the American War between the States, did two “princes” share rule, and then turn on each other?

There are different ways to be united, and different ways to be divided. Satan’s kingdom is perfectly united in darkness and ignorance of God, but it can still be divided when it comes to having peace among themselves. “There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.”

As for your second question, you are touching on one of Satan’s (and God’s, for that matter) biggest challenges; namely, how does one get humans to recognize authority and submit to it? Humans are rebellious and self-serving by nature. Satan cannot control them very well, and he is looking for a man he can use to subdue the entire human race so that he can use the nations to do things he wants to do, such as to annihilate Israel. The man he eventually will use is called “the Beast” in the Bible. There is no telling what humans will call him, but it will be something like what the current President was recently called by one entertainment figure: “our lord and savior”.

So, yes, anarchists, vandals, harlots, drunkards, and the like are not Satan’s servants. They are serving their own lusts, and he despises them. His law and order man is coming, and that “Beast” will destroy such rebellious people and unite the earth under one government.

There are lower sorts of demons that are despised by other, more sophisticated demons, of course. But how Satan keeps it all under control, the Bible does not say.

jdc

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4/13/13

Subject: Principalities and Powers

Hi John,

The things you have written on “Principalities and powers” made me think, and I wonder if the spirit ruling this country now is the same one as say, back in the 40’s or 50’s, or is the US under a more evil one today?

Billy M

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It certainly appears that a new demon is controlling this American culture, but I wonder of it is the case that men are just becoming more unruly. Then again, Satan has power over the fallen angels that rule the nations, and he can re-assign them at will.  He said as much to Jesus during the Temptation, and Jesus did not contradict him.  So, has Satan re-assigned authority over the United States to a different spirit, or are people in this culture harder to rule over now?  It is a question worth asking, but only the Spirit of God can answer it.

jdc

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4/13/13

Subject: Principalities and Powers

Hey Pastor John,

I have a question concerning “Principalities and Powers”. At the end of the first lesson, you state that Satan was ruler over the wicked powers in the world, and that’s the position that he offered Jesus.  So, obviously Satan wouldn’t have known that they were “evil”, right? If he did, he or other angels would have seen something about it, I would suspect.  So, would he have been blinded to the fact that they were evil and just taken over by the fact that he was “ruler”?

Leah

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Since the Son was not yet revealed, nobody could have known what God saw as “evil”.  So Satan would not have seen those angels as evil. No.

jdc

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4/13/13

Subject: The Crucifixion of Jesus

Hi John,

God has been giving you some good thoughts to send to us, and we are really enjoying reading them! I love what you have written about The Crucifixion of Jesus and have read it numerous times. But something doesn’t feel right each time I have read the sentence, “There is a reason that the apostle John called Satan’s earthly servants anti-Christ instead of anti-God”. (I love what you wrote in the next paragraph about Satan and his sons developing a religious system which uses the name “Christ” as part of it title.)  My problem is (if I understand it correctly) the religion of Christianity started with the Roman Catholic Church, and John had been dead over 200 years before that religion started.  So, to speak of John calling certain people “anti-Christ”, and in the next paragraph discuss Christianity, a religion John didn’t know about, looks out of place to me.

I think the paragraph about Christianity needs to be in there, but needs to be moved somewhere else, unless the sentence or paragraph with John calling them “anti-Christ” could be worded to include what Satan did after John died.  I have wrestled with this each time I have read it and would like to know if I’m having right feelings and thoughts.

Thank you for listening to Jesus,

Randell

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Hi, Randell.

You are right in saying that the religious system called “Christianity” got that name long after Jesus died. But that is only where the name “Christianity” began to be used. It is not where the religion of Christianity itself began.

The religion of Christianity started in heaven when Satan first sinned. That is where hypocrisy and dependence on a form of godliness began. Satan brought that spirit, the spirit of Christianity, his spirit, to earth with him when he was cast out of heaven.  It took him a good while to get men to co-operate enough with him to give that religion its shape, and then give it a name that would attract God’s people, but the spirit of that religion had been around a long time.  John saw it, but he did not call it by the name men gave it.  He called it what it really was.

Thanks for writing.

jdc

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4/29/13

Satan and Job

John,

I love the section on Satan and Job, in the new book about the Father and the Son! When people find out that Satan is not who they have always thought he was, they are going to be very surprised. And they will find out who God really is, too! You are right; Satan was evil, but he was still carrying out God’s orders! That is very clear. I can’t wait for God’s people to read this book and finally see that Christianity has done a number on them – and on us, too, until God showed us the truth. :) This is good!

Lou F

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5/2/13

Subject: Chapter 5

I just finished reading Chapter 5 of God Had a Son Before Mary Did, and it is wonderful! It just takes God to be able to take this all in. I keep thinking of the word “incredible”, so I looked it up. The definition is: “so extraordinary as to seem impossible.” That’s how it feels to read this chapter. The love of God and His Son is so huge, who in the world will believe it?

I just love it. I love what you are writing, and I love what we are learning.

Wonderful!

Donna

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Thanks for the feedback, Donna. I am happy with the final version of Chapter 5, especially when others read it and feel as you do. Now, on to Chapter 6!

jdc

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5/7/13

Subject: Chapter 7

Pastor John,

This weekend, when you explained about why Mary had to be a virgin, it was such a wonderful new thought to me. In God’s Old Covenant, you had to have your own sacrifice; you couldn’t use another person’s animal! The Father was going to have his own sacrifice, and Jesus was his own, not Joseph’s!

This is so very good and simple!  I love the exciting journey we have been on, reading the Father and Son book.

Kay

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Yes, that was an exciting for the Lord to show us that. I had never thought of it before, either.

jdc

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5/19/13

Pastor John to the congregation

The Son of God could not die for our sins while he was in heaven, living in the spiritual body that his Father gave him when He created him. He had to come down here and get in a body that could die. I hope that thought comes across in the following:

Hebrews 7:3 tells us that there is no record of the Son’s beginning. However, there is a record of the beginning of Mary’s son; the story of Jesus’ birth is found in both Matthew and Luke. If the birth of Mary’s son in Bethlehem was the beginning of the Son of God, then the author of Hebrews completely missed the mark. But he was right.  The Son of God could not have been born on earth because he is the one through whom God created the earth! Hebrews also teaches that there is no record of the end of God’s Son. But the son of Mary certainly did die; we have the record of his death in all four of the Gospels. The Son is the “king of righteousness” (Heb. 7:2), and in the pathway of righteousness, “there is no death” (Prov. 12:28). It was because death had no power over the Son of God (Acts 2:24) that he had to come to earth. He could not die as long as he was in the deathless spiritual body he had in heaven. He had to come down and indwell a corruptible human temple so that he could “taste of death” for us.

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Hey,

This is so good John.  It’s funny how we see, hear, and read things over and over again and never see or understand.  But when the spirit of truth touches us, it opens things right up.

When I read this, I was like, “of course!” even though I had never had that thought.  I love that feeling.  There is a mountain of learning available to us in the things of God!

Amy

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5/22/13

Hey Pastor John,

When Jesus was on the cross and he said, “Father, forgive them; they know not what they do,” did God not forgive them? I ask this because the Holocaust, and how it says in Revelation the armies of the earth will gather up against the Jews.

Thanks,
Jonathan

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God forgave the ones who repented, Jonathan, and thousands did (Acts 21:20). But as a whole, the Jews did not repent but rejected Jesus, their Messiah. And they have suffered terribly for that error for two thousand years.

jdc

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5/22/13

I felt excitement while reading Chapter 6 in the Father and Son book.  I was excited that there is a Son. It made me want to stop and tell everyone.

I felt renewed by reading how God followed the rules of sacrifice, His rules, for our sake only, not His.

The one who owed the least, paid the most. It’s something.  It seems that always accompanies a right heart.

The two verses that you quoted, both referring to the Messiah as the Son of God, as opposed to the verses that mention a son of God. . . . Those verses, the meaning of those verses, the heart and the intent of those verses, expressed a deep love, a sincere esteem and honor for the One that they were spoken about.  Those verses felt sweet to recite. I felt like those people were in love with the Messiah they spoke of – even the Pharisee who had no idea that he was speaking to Him.

Thank you for sending it.

J.D.

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5/23/13

Pastor John,

Judy and I read the first part of Chapter 6 last night. It is becoming easier to read, or maybe it’s that my understanding of what is being written is improving!

One of my favorite parts is when you are explaining how a son of God has often been mistranslated as the Son, and how that mistranslation can be used to support the doctrine of the Trinity.  (btw, I recently watched the video from YouTube of you teaching the Trinity Study.  I was excited because this time, with the knowledge I have gained from this book, I was able to follow and understand what you were saying!)  We are so blessed to participate in the process of publishing this book on the Father and the Son for God’s people. If just one of God’s children can understand what God has given you and puts it into practice, then it’s one less sacrifice to Baal or one of the other demons.

We really appreciate you sending this out. When we’re reading things like this, it feels as though we were with you at the beach.

Billy M.

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5/23/13

Hey John,

We enjoyed reading Chapter 6 of the Father and Son book this evening. Your daughter Rebekah will be armed with some questions for you over the weekend, things we talked about but did not know the answer to. We got together with Amy F., Tom and Suzi, Rebekah and Ellen, and LeeAnn and Ben, and enjoyed our time reading.

A couple things I wondered about, after reading about that Chapter, had to do with the willing sacrifice.... When a person offered their animal as a sacrifice, they were required to lay their hands on the animal’s head prior to killing it (I’m assuming for transference of sin, etc.). I was wondering when the Father did that to Jesus, and how. Was it before Jesus was killed, or sometime afterwards, but before he ascended to offer himself to the Father.

There were a lot of good thoughts in this section.  It really sends the wheels to turning.

Another question was this: Before creation, Jesus was in a body, correct? And when he was glorified after his resurrection, was his glorified body a NEW body, or the same body he had before? And if a new body, what happened to the first body he possessed?

Then, with us, we will get a NEW body, but I suppose that is where we differ from Jesus.  We were not sons of God as Jesus was, with a body previously. All that gets a little sketchy.   But I’m sure there are some good things in all that.

Who among God’s people is being given the good things we are? We should be SO thankful John.

Talk to you soon,

Gary

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Hi Gary.

A note of caution: We know that since the Son of God and the Son of Mary were blended at Jesus’ baptism, they are forever the same person, but it would help keep things clearer for you if you would not speak of Jesus being in a body before Creation.  Mary’s son did not exist before Creation.

But as to your good question concerning Jesus’ glorification:  After the Son of God and the son of Mary became one, that new man, Jesus Christ, did pray that the Father would restore to him the glory which he had previously with the Father (Jn. 17:5).  The question of whether that glory was that he was returned to the same body he had from before the foundation of the world is an open one.  When John saw Jesus in Revelation, Jesus seemed to be in the same body he had on earth, but in a glorified state.  But then, we know that a person in a glorified body can appear in whatever form he chooses.  Jesus appeared to John first in Revelation in the form of a slaughtered Lamb (Rev. 5:6).

This is the sort of question that we might have to wait to ask Jesus, the Lamb of God, when we see him.

Your first question is easy.  In the Old Testament pattern, the owner laid his hands on his sacrificial animal before he killed it.  Therefore, we know that God “laid His hands” on His Son before He put him to death.  There is no particular moment that stands out as that happening, but according to the pattern, it was to take place just before the killing.  So, we can start looking for that event near the end of Jesus’ earthy life.  When the Voice spoke from heaven in John 12:28?  During Jesus’ fervent prayer in the garden of Gethsemene?  Who knows what God will show us about that!

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5/23/13

Pastor John,

It felt very good reading this part of the Father and Son book.  I felt blessed reading through it.  Good!!!

I liked the footnote that spoke of using the word since instead of if, in the Temptation of Jesus, and also the part where you wrote about how what humans call “impossible” is the norm in heaven.

Are you going to have in the next section about when Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac, how it would have made God jealous for Abraham to do that?

I still marvel at that sight, how confident Abraham was in knowing without a shadow of doubt that God told him to do that. Then, how he made no excuses to avoid carrying out God’s command and doing what he wanted instead, being the father of that young boy.

Thanks!!!

Paul

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Hey Pastor John,

I like this part that you added:

“Abraham was willing to obey God and offer up his son Isaac, but Abraham was not making a sacrifice for sin.  He didn’t know why God commanded him to sacrifice Isaac; he just knew that God told him to do it.  Only after God’s angel stopped him from killing his son did Abraham learn that it was just a test of his faith.”

When I read it, what I thought was, not only was God willing to give up His Son as a sacrifice for our sins but His Son was willing to be given up!

I’m not so sure Isaac would have willingly died as his father’s sacrifice just because God required it as a test of Abraham’s faith.  That would have also been a test of Isaac’s faith!!

Gary’s song “Ask of Me” comes to mind... [Jesus talking] “I didn’t have to wonder what I’d say or do.  I knew I’d ask my Father for you.”

This is soooo good!  Thank you for sending this for us to read.  I love it more and more!

Amy F

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Hi Pastor John,

If there were typos in what we read tonight for Chapter 6, we missed them because the reading was so good that we completely forgot to look for them.

In the section “A Man In Appearance”, we love the part where you describe how the Son of God made his appearance on earth as a man, not as an infant in a manger, and certainly not as an embryo in Mary’s womb. That section is sooo clear and easy to understand!  Don’t change it!!! In the section on “The Virgin Birth”, we were so glad that Gary asked the question of why did it have to be a virgin birth and that God gave you the answer. We wonder if anyone else knows and understands this, but with this book, God is making a way for others to understand.

These were just a couple of sections that stood out to us. Everything we read tonight from Chapter 6 was very good to us.  We are praying that God continues to give you what is needed to finish the book.

Love you,

Randell and Doris

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Hey there,

The reading was so good. Joel and I read it together as we waited on Rob to come in from the airport (he had already read it on the plane!), and it was the sweetest feeling, spending time together reading this chapter. Thank you for all your work and effort. It is a beautiful story of God and His love for us. I especially liked the part towards the end about the sacrifice being God’s own Lamb. When I asked Joel what stood out to him, he brought that section up, also.

Hope to see more of your writing soon.

Donna N

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I like the last two sections tonight.  The owner having to willingly offer his sacrifice was well written.   Michelle and I took turns reading together.  It was sweet.  Thanks for sending out.

Amanda

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John, this Chapter 6 is so good. I will have to read it two or three times. On page 7, I had to stop and take in the feeling at the beginning of that page.  I was filled with thankfulness just to hear these words of life. The Lamb which God sacrificed for the world BELONGED TO HIM!

Junior E

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We really enjoyed reading Chapter 6 tonight at our house. It was great to see Jonathan starting to have glimpses of God’s Son and Mary’s son coming together at the Jordan River to make the new man :)  It felt so good reading here at home as a family, stopping and looking up scriptures and discussing what you had written. We took our time, and it was wonderful! We are so thankful you sent this out for us all.

G’nite :)

Bess

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Those new sections in chapter 6 are really good.

Julie P

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Just got through reading! We are so blessed to know what we know!

Jammie C

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That’s beautiful! We just finished reading chapter 6, Part 1.  Good, good feelings about God’s sacrifice. Really like the new sections!

Aaron

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5/23/13

Pastor John,

Dee and I thank you for sending us this wonderful work. As Billy said, it seems so much easier to read.

John, we do have a question about a reference we noticed in the Father and Son book. In one place you give reference to Hebrews 10:5: “a body you have prepared for me”, and you say the author was quoting Psalm 40. But throughout the entire Psalm 40, we didn’t see anything about a body having been prepared for him. Are we missing something?

Jim

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“My ear you have opened” is what is in Psalm 40 of the King James Version. The author of Hebrews, as is often the case with other writers in the New Testament, is quoting the Septuagint version of the Psalm 40, verses 7-9b. Sometimes, the Septuagint differs from the Hebrew text of the Old Testament which we have now, as in this case.

jdc

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5/23/13

Hi John,

Suzi and I read chapter 6 with a few folks at Gary’s house. Each paragraph has so many things to think about, it is hard to absorb in one setting. I re-read it again this morning. Here are a few things that really stood out to me.

I liked the way you described the scene of Jesus at the River Jordan, and how John must have been deeply impressed when he heard the Voice of God speaking about His beloved Son.  What John saw was Mary’s son. One can only imagine what was going on in John’s mind when he heard God’s voice.

Another part that really stood out to me is the section which describes why God had to sacrifice His son. I don’t think I will ever read this scripture the same again: “Behold! The Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world!”  (Or, “Behold! God’s Lamb that takes away the sins of the world!”) Whew!

One of my favorite sections is the one on the Virgin Birth. This thought is just too good to keep to ourselves: “The birth of Mary’s son in Bethlehem was a glorious event, but the coming of God’s Son was more glorious. . . .   It is unwise to esteem that holy event (Jesus’ birth) more than the holier event of the coming of God’s hidden Son”.

Thanks John for all your work and sending this out. We are looking forward to the next section.

Tom

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Pastor John,

The reading that you sent last night is so easy to comprehend, and your description in the section, “a Man in Appearance”, is very clear.  Of course, I have my questions about the blending of the Son of God with the son of Mary, like what happened to the son of Mary’s mind that he had had all his life, like his preferences, his likes, his dislikes, his feelings.  Was it that he suddenly only wanted to do the will of the Father because the Son of God took over his mind?  I don’t know if the way I’m asking that makes sense.

Also, I like the comparison you made between the Son of God coming into the son of Mary’s body, and they becoming one, and the holy Ghost coming into Jesus’ followers on the day of Pentecost.

Thank you!

Anna

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As for what happened to Jesus’ mind, etc., after God’s Son blended with him at the Jordan River, you could ask yourself, “What happened to my mind when I became a new creature?”  Beyond that, I think the Lord will have an answer for us at some point.

jdc

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5/23/13

Subject: Chapter 7

The very first paragraph of this chapter was so good! I had often wondered what happened to Jesus, the Son of Mary. I love how God took care of the Son that He created in the beginning, and took care of Jesus of Nazareth. Something about that paragraph is very special.

I also like how you brought out the differences in “a Son of God” and “the Son of God”.

Another favorite section was the section on “The Virgin Birth”, especially this: “. . . the Son of God made his advent into the world at Jesus’ baptism, in the form of a dove, not as an infant lying in a manger.”

When reading the part where you talked about how God had to be the actual Father of the one He would sacrifice, I was reminded of your Old testament classes, and was thankful for having been taught the Old Testament; otherwise, I would not have known what was being talked about. Knowing the Old Testament is so valuable!

The whole chapter was so good!  I highlighted so many sentences that just stood out. All of this information is wonderful, and so totally “backwards” from what I heard growing up.

Debbie T

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Hi John,

I really love how you are putting together each chapter and section of the book. I know it has been a lot of hard work and reworking of each chapter and section. But each time we read it, the flow and the content gets smoother and clearer then ever. I really believe that when this gets published and available for God’s people to read, there will be no denying what God did with His Son. It will be one of those books that just leave you speechless and in awe of what you just read.

We have had the honor and privilege of learning what has happened with God’s Son all along the way, as He has revealed it to you and us. Someone who hears this message for the first time will have to be in awe of it. I hope we get to see and feel the wonderful feelings and thoughts God’s people will have after they read it, if God opens their eyes to see it.

In chapter 6, I liked the part titled, “God’s Lamb, not Joseph’s”, and how you showed that the sacrificial lamb had to belong to the person who was sacrificing it. To me, it really explained how important the virgin birth was, and why this really is a story about God. Thank God!  He has chosen us at this time to be a part of such a wonderful revelation that He wants to be revealed to His children!

Thank you, John, and everyone who has helped.

Stuart

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5/23/13

Hey Pastor John,

I love the way Chapter 6 opens, and I think it is very easy to understand. I think it is so important to address the fact that Jesus was a normal human being before the Son of God came and entered into him. I am not sure that people see it that way, and it is important to address. It just seems to set thoughts in order.

A thought I had while reading was that I love how God took such an average person and made him into something so valuable!! Other than his miraculous birth, there was nothing particularly notable about the pre-baptism Jesus, as you said.  The coming of the Son of God is what made all of the difference. I don’t know; it just feels sweet to me.

I also love the section, “Gods Lamb, not Joseph’s”, and how you described that, according to the law of Moses, to sacrifice something, it had to be yours.

Another thing I kept thinking while reading is that this information is so vastly different from what my preconceived notions about Jesus have always been. I am still having wrong thoughts about Jesus corrected through these chapters.

I don’t really have any suggestions or anything. Overall, I just really loved the chapter.

Billy M.

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5/24/13

Pastor John,

Oh, the feelings and thoughts that have been coming since reading these chapters in the Father and Son book! I was driving home today listening to the Father and the Son music cd. There’s a part in the first song about the Son being revealed through the passing of time! All these thoughts and feelings just started flooding me, on the inside. I don’t even have words for all I was feeling.  It was like looking behind a curtain, and you could understand what you saw there, but when the curtain was closed you are left with just bits and pieces! I started praying, “Please, Lord, I want to know!”

Then the Spirit said, “I am still hidden to some.”

John, the feelings of - how do I say it?  Do I really know how big this is, to know these things we do know! Or to hear the Spirit speak to us! To have the Son reveal himself to us!! IT’S BIG!! It’s like looking behind that curtain. We know him when we see him, but when he shuts the curtain, we just see bits and pieces. I can’t get it all out!

Love you guys, and hope you are getting a lot done.

Jammie

PS. I did have a question the other night when reading chapter 6. I have never thought this before, and even wondered why have I never asked this. Anyway, how come we never hear anything about Mary’s husband, Joseph? It’s always about Mary. Did he die young? I will look this up, but just struck me the other night.

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Hi Jammie.

Yes, it is wonderful to have fellowship with the Father and the Son! It is very humbling and sweet. I am so happy you are being blessed by the knowledge God has given to us, and to all who will believe.

As for Joseph, there is nothing for you to look up. He just disappears from the biblical record. Let’s hold on to the love and righteousness of God so that we can get to meet Joseph one day and ask him what happened to him!

jdc

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5/25/13

Bro. John:

I have nothing to add to what you have written, but I want to share with you some feelings while I was reading this section.

When I got to the ending, “If they had had their way, Satan and Peter, who wanted Jesus to be king of the world, would have done as much damage to the work of God as Satan and Israel’s elders would have done if they had been able to kill Jesus and keep him dead.”  I just had to sit there and let that one thought roll over and over in my heart. It struck me as terrifying that one may think they are doing right, when it can be as wrong as can be, and it always is, without the Spirit of God leading. As you said here, Satan and Peter, one motivated by hate, the other by mere human love, but both of their desires, were both acting contrary to the will of God. This thought made me realize how much we poor humans need the holy Ghost. How very valuable is the Spirit of God, guiding us everyday in our lives so that we please Him who made us!

I remember you telling us in a message a while back that if there was anyone doing the will of God on the day Jesus died, it was the ones who crucified him. That was a new thought to me, a forward thought from God. Who was doing the will of God on that day? The ones who appeared to be doing what was right or the ones doing the will of God, who appeared to be doing wrong?

I am just overwhelmed with what we are receiving from God. I know it is not just for us. The Lord reminded me of the verse in Romans 11:

“I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.  God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.  Know ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he made intercession to God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed thy prophets and digged down thine altars, and I am left alone, and they seek my life”.

But what said the answer of God unto him?  “I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.”  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”

For these hearts, God is still seeking. There is still so much hope and love in Jesus. This kind of love just makes the heart weep and at the same time overflow with joy . . . . and want to kiss the Son. :)

Praying God will open up the storehouse for you (and us), John, to get this to His people.

Sandy :)

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5/26/13

Good morning,

This is so good, and so many new thoughts, and so much to take in. I opened up the file this morning and read the first sentence of chapter 6.  I just started right there, again, even though I had already read that part when you sent it out a few days ago. I’m so looking forward to getting to the last part. This is wonderful, to begin learning how some of this really took place – never even had these thoughts before and didn’t even know enough to ask the right questions. Wonder how some of God’s hungry children will enjoy this good food when they read this? Exciting times, isn’t it?

Thank you so much for writing this so we can learn more about God.

S––

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5/26/13

Hi,

We got together this morning with Damien and Kay. We read Section Two of Chapter 6. It was really good. I know we have been reading these chapters for a while now, but my Jacob started asking questions about baby Jesus and him (the baby) being the son of God. I think it was the first time he was really getting what we have been saying. It was something to watch him trying to take it in! I was watching him and thinking, “He has never been anywhere but here, with those who know and love the truth.” He has never even been to a church, but he still has to deal with wrong ideas in his flesh!” It was very sweet watching him learn this. I also had this thought: “Just because our children are sitting in a chair in our meetings does not mean they understand what they are a part of.” After everyone was gone this morning, I was doing dishes and just thanking Jesus to be able to help him understand. The spirit spoke back saying, “It’s because you were doing your part!” Our part is taking the time to sit down and read with them and include them. It was very sweet!

Jammie C.

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5/27/13

John,

I’ve been reading over the new chapter 6, and just got through page 15. I had to stop and just try to take in just how impossible it was for anyone in Jesus’ time to take in anything God was doing, even His own people!

God was putting His own Son to death, going so far beyond the law and what anyone at that time could think. It was altogether impossible for them to comprehend, because God had strictly forbidden His people under the law to do what He Himself was doing: sacrificing His child! Knowing God’s purpose, though, what a good kind of feeling, hope, and faith it makes me feel inside about the love of God for His Son and us. It feels good!

And as for chapter 5, I have been chewing on it like a cow chewing it’s cud. I’d read a page, chew the cud, read another page, chew the cud some more. I love it.

Thank you John for being there for Jesus to talk to.

Jimmy T

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5/27/13

Hey Pastor John,

I was re-reading chapter 6. In the section, “No One Knew There Was a Temptation”.

As I read, a thought popped into my mind.

Halfway down the second paragraph, you have written, “God could have chosen any of His heavenly servants to tempt Jesus in the wilderness, of course, but as always, He chose the one with the qualifications....etc.

The thought I had was: He couldn’t have chosen “...any of His heavenly servants...” because Satan was the only one that was qualified to offer Jesus the kingdoms of this world.  He was the only one ruling it at that time.

Would this be a correct thought?

Kay

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Hi Kay.

Thanks for writing.

I would rather say that God could have done anything, whatever He wanted to do, rather than say He was forced to do something a certain way. I understand your logic. I cannot see anything wrong with it, logically speaking, but God is as far beyond our logic as He is beyond our kind of righteousness, and knowing that, I have a hard time using the phrase “God had to do.”

Pastor John

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5/29/13

Hey Pastor John,

I’ve finished reading through the rest of the chapter, and I really love it!  Reading through the second section, it’s interesting to think of Jesus and Satan both being “servants of God”!  Both were doing God’s will, and His will was perfect!  Reading that, and then section 4 last Sunday with Aaron and Abby after breakfast, brought some good feelings and conversation about how good it is to know that God really is the one in charge of everything, good and bad.  Knowing that saves you from fearing what Satan might do and makes you fear God and what He can do.  That is the kind of fear I want, the kind that gets you somewhere and doesn’t hold you back.

I also liked the part in section 2 that talked about Satan’s “big chance”.  I’ve never thought about it like that, that Satan would have looked forward to offering his position to Jesus because he thought that doing so meant a promotion for him!  It is scary to think of how blind to His way God can make you toward things if you are filled with pride, and only want something for yourself!  It’s a bad feeling to even get close to that.

I also thought it was sweet when talking about the story of Peter denying Jesus, and how Jesus asked him three times if he loved him.  It seemed like Peter was given another chance to confess (three times!) that he did know Jesus, and did love him, even though his self-confidence was shot after denying Jesus three times previously.

I LOVE the “Treason, Treason!” section!

I have had a few questions along the way...

1. I think you said it before, but what exactly is the meaning of a “son of God” before the Spirit came?

Not to be flippant or anything, but the meaning was just “a son of God”, and apparently, it could apply to any rational created being.

2. What exactly did Satan know about “the Messiah”, and wouldn’t he have asked God if he was someone special to Him like Jesus kept saying?  I would think that Satan would have asked something.

All of heaven knew that Jesus was the Messiah, beginning before he was born. That is why there was such celebration in heaven as the shepherds saw outside of Bethlehem. Nobody in heaven knew what the Messiah would eventually do, however, other than rule the nations.

3. In section 5, you wrote that we now have to deal with the same spirits that those in heaven had to deal with while Stan and his angels were up there, but what do you think that was? Did other angels or heavenly beings get tempted by Satan or were they influenced, what does that mean?  That is interesting to think about.

Influence. Feelings. Wondering. That kind of stuff. Nobody in heaven had the wisdom or knowledge of God concerning good and evil. All of that was still hidden in the Son.

4. Don’t you think that maybe the Son did know about Satan being evil, since the Son had the same spirit as God and they talked all the time, and he would have felt something from his Father?

You have the same spirit as God, and talk to Him all the time, and feel things from the Father. Do you know everything the Father knows?

Thank you again for sending this out for us to read, I have really enjoyed it! :)

\

Leah

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6/3/13

I am thankful Jesus let me love what you were saying to us as a body Saturday night, and “The Temptation” was beyond wonderful. Since our translation session on Friday, after doing the verse in Ecclesiastes 12:13 for the Father and Son book, I have been feasting on the whole book of Ecclesiastes. It goes hand in hand with what you were telling us Saturday night. I love God’s wisdom. I feel so blessed to be allowed to hear with my heart. Thank you for watching over us.

Bess

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6/6/13

Subject: Reading about the Temptation.

Hey!

Okay, people’s image of Satan is usually with a pitchfork and tail, but really that’s not how it is. Bekah asked if Satan wants the catholic or pentecostal people more.  Is it pentecostal, since it is more like what he was used to in heaven?

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Yes, that is right, and when God’s people (the ones with His Spirit) join his religion, Christianity, he has them. The holy Ghost is God’s life, and being near that is what he was used to. He himself was good only at maintaining proper form.

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Is this in the book somewhere?

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Is what in the book? The issue of proper form instead of real life? Yes, there is a whole chapter coming up about that, chapter nine.

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I feel like a chapter on that would help people understand who Satan really is, and his point of view of things. If they get that Christian image of Satan out of their head, it would help them move forward in the truth; it would make it easier for them to understand what God is saying now. They need to keep the holy Ghost alive! If not, by “going to church”, that is where Satan gets his foot in and spiritual “dormancy” begins. I remember that you have spoken about the wrong image people have of Satan, but in tonight’s reading, I feel like it was very simple, black and white, of how it really is. That may already be in the book, but again, tonight it was just really clear. Maybe it’s just me understanding it better. But the way it was said tonight made more sense!

Thanks,

Danielle

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Thank you for the questions, Danielle. It makes me glad to hear when something is easy to understand. The truth is always like that. Please pray that I can get the truth out there, as simple and good as it always is!

jdc

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6/9/13

Good Morning!

Last night’s reading was so wonderful.  I really can’t say what was the best about it, but it left me feeling so joyous. It was almost like I was drunk :)

So thankful for every experience!

Caroline

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6/9/13

Ok. I found the part in Chapter 6, Section Three that I really liked. For me, it set the stage for reading about the Son’s ministry.  It’s the part that includes these five statements Jesus made:

(1)  No one could come to the Father but by him (Jn. 14:6).

(2)  All power in heaven and earth was given to him (Mt. 28:18. Note: Jesus did not claim power over the earth only, which Satan had offered him, but power in heaven also, which Satan wanted for himself.)

(3)  He had the authority to forgive sins (Mk. 2:5-7. Note: This claim was rejected by religious leaders whom Jesus called Satan’s sons, and being Satan’s sons, they would have been reflecting Satan’s attitude.)

(4)  He and God were in perfect accord (Jn. 10:30; 17:22).

(5)  He was greater than both the temple (Mt. 12:6) and the Sabbath (Lk. 6:5).

Thinking about only Jesus can do these things gives me a settled heart and encourages His Spirit in me. The Section Three is wonderful. Thank you! I almost feel like I’m learning a new Jesus and a new Satan.

Song

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6/9/13

Hi, Pastor John:

I can feel that your book, “God Had a Son Before Mary Did”, is changing me on the inside. I am more thankful every time we read it. Sometimes I am in awe of what God is showing us. He is so good to us and loves us so very much.

I love what Jesus said, “My Father hears me always because I do those thing that are pleasing in His sight.” God’s eyes are everywhere.  The Spirit has been really dealing with me to take care of the small things in my daily walk with God. The big things are obvious, but it’s the little things (foxes) that can spoil the vine.

I can’t tell you how much this book is helping me. Since chapter 5, it’s seems that my understanding is opening up. It makes me want to go back and read chapters 1-4 again. And I’m looking forward to reading the rest of the book and am praying for my understanding to be opened up in those pages, too. Whatever I understand, Jesus has revealed it.

Hope you have a great week,

Billy M

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6/9/13

Good morning!

Reading section three from Chapter 6 in the Father and Son book left such a good feeling last night. There were two things that really stood out to me. One was that the Father heard and answered Jesus’ prayer and did give him a way out of being put to death on the cross, but that Jesus did not take it. The love of the Father, the love Jesus had for his Father, the love they both have for us is, well, it’s just huge! It is so big that just to feel a touch of that love makes me feel very still and small. Who in this world is thinking on such things? Believing such a wonderful thing?

The second thing that stood out to me was going over the supposed “crimes” of Jesus. I love that part because it clears out wrong ideas about what Jesus was doing and saying while on this earth. He really was intent on doing his Father’s will, above everybody and everything, himself included.

Wow, who knew it? The Father had a Son!

Donna N

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6/13/13

Good morning, Pastor John!

I loved the reading about “The Witness”. If you take away the power of God, we have nothing at all; just dead works. I love the feelings – and the understanding of what my feelings are about.  To feel something is one thing, but to know what our feelings are all about is another. If God’s people can just get this book into their hands and read it with an open heart, and see how much their ceremonies will keep them from feeling the life from Jesus, it will be like when Jesus returns and the Jews ask him, “Who are you”?  Then, the prophet said that Jesus would explain to them that he is the one whom their fathers killed. I do believe that this book will be that much of an eye-opener for God’s people . . . it has been for us.  Just look at the feelings God has given you (us) by writing and reading these pages.

What an honor God has given us!

Billy M

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6/13/13

Pastor John,

Last night was so wonderful!  The reading was really good, but when the prayer started and the Spirit fell, I felt so blessed.  I felt so clean and free.  At times recently, through the day, I feel overwhelmed to be a part of this holy work.

It feels so good to be a part of the gatherings, instead of just watching it, and wanting to be like what the viewers see – free.

It was like you said, this is such a refreshing!  That’s exactly how I felt.  And it is so available when we do our part, at home, or at work etc...  Thanks you so much for all you do for us.  It is such a blessing; I want to walk worthy of it!

Paul :-)

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6/27/13

General puzzlements:

On water baptism: Matt 28:19: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”  The disciples could not baptize with the holy Spirit; only God can do that – so must this not have been a command for a water baptism?

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Some have argued against it, but I can only make sense of this verse as being a command for the disciples to convert souls and baptize them with water. This does not present any problem at all with the truth because Paul’s gospel, the ceremony-less gospel of the Gentiles, was not revealed until several years after this. Peter and the other apostles’ gospel was for the Jews only, and it included every ritual that God gave to the Jews under the law, including John the Baptist’s baptism in water. If Peter spoke to Gentiles about Christ, he would expect those Gentiles to become Jews (by circumcision) and submit to the law, beginning with John’s baptism of water. See Galatians 5:1-5, where Paul warns the Gentiles who had been persuaded to turn away from Paul’s gospel to Peter’s.

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John 1:1 “The Word was God”.  How is this reconciled with the doctrine that the Son was a created being? I’m confused about whether Jesus IS God or just represents God. Heb 1:3: Jesus “is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.” Are there clues elsewhere on what exactly is meant here by “representation?”

And Heb. 8:8:  “To the son, God said, ‘your throne, O God, is forever...’” So the Son is considered “God” by God – but there is only one God.  So, this seems to circle back to the Trinitarian argument that God exists in multiple persons. How is this reconciled?

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For those two questions, read “Is Jesus God?” at http://www.goingtojesus.com/site/php/isjesusgod.html

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Heb. 8:4 (NIV) says Jesus “became as much superior to the angels as...”  So, according to this version, he was at one time not superior to the angels? Or is this a mistranslation? KJV says “Being made so much better than the angels...”

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I think you mean 1:4. If Jesus “became” anything, it could only be that he was made that by the Father. There is nothing in the Bible about the Father ever “being made” something. My translation of Hebrews 1:4 is “He was created as much superior to the angels as the title he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.”

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John 1:3 “Everything was created through him, and without him was nothing created that was created.” Does not this imply that the Son was not created?

Also John 1:16 “...by him were all things created, things in the heavens...”

Col. 1:16-16 “all things were created by him”.  But if the Son is a created being, then he is one of the created things.  So if all things were created BY him, he must have created himself, but my brain has trouble wrapping around that concept. Another translation artifact?

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If those verses were all that we had about the subject, and we did not have the Spirit to teach us, it would be easy to settle for the idea that the Son was the Father, too. But, as Paul said in 1Corinthians 15:24-28, there is an exception to everything being under the Son’s feet; namely, the One who put everything under him. My translation:

24. Then comes the end, when he will hand over the kingdom to his God and Father, when He abolishes all government, and all authority, and power.

25. For he must reign until He puts all his enemies under his feet.

26. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

27. For “He has subdued all things under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are subdued”, it is obvious that He who subdued all things under him is an exception.

28. But when all things are subdued under him, then shall the Son, himself, submit to Him who subdued all things under him so that God might be all things to all people.

Everything the Son has ever done, he has done at the command of the Father, and with the power with which the Father created him. Of ourselves, we can do nothing without Jesus (Jn. 15:5), and of himself, the Son can do nothing without the Father (Jn. 5:19).

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Here are some questions about Chapters 1 and 2:

You said, “Throughout the New Testament, we are alerted when a writer’s meaning differs from what he appears to be saying.”  Is this always true? An example that comes to mind is Mark 7:27. (Which has always been an interesting passage to me; some comment that it’s uncharacteristic for Him to be so rude to the woman, but someone suggested it showed Him bantering with the woman and displaying His sense of humor, and this interpretation actually makes sense to me.)

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Jesus was not joking. That same story, in fuller form, is in Matthew 15, btw. The woman was a Gentile, and Jesus explained his refusal to give her an audience by saying that the Father had sent him only to Jews. As I have said it many times, the Son did not come down from heaven to love, to heal, to die for our sins, or anything else. The ONLY reason he came to earth was to do the Father’s will (Heb. 10:5-7, referring to Psalm 40:6-8). He loved, forgave, healed, and died for our sins only because that is what the Father willed.

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You wrote this phrase: “would mean that when the Son ascended back to heaven, he returned into his Father’s head!” – this might be reworded to “into his Father’s mind” - as is, it implies an assumption that God has a corporeal body with a head. (Which I had always assumed was not likely, as He is omnipresent and comes in clouds, etc.  My take is that references to His breath, speaking, hands, etc. were metaphorical.)

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Yes, God has a body, and man’s body was created in its image.  Here are body parts that the Bible says God has:

GOD’S BODY PARTS SCRIPTURES

head & hair  Dan. 7:9

eyes   Prov. 15:3; Dt. 11:12; Ps. 34:15

eyelids  Ps. 11:4

ears  Ps. 17:6; 34:15

nose (smell)  Lev. 26:31; Amos 5:21; Phip. 4:18

nostrils  Ex. 15:8; Job 4:9; Ps. 18:8,15

mouth  Dt. 8:3

tongue  Isa. 30:27

lips  Job 11:5; 23:12; Isa. 30:27

breath  Ps. 33:6

voice  Gen. 3:8; Dt. 4:12; Isa. 6:8; 30:30

face/countenance  Ex. 33:20; Ps. 13:1 Num. 6:26; Ps. 4:6

arm  Dt. 33:27; Isa. 51:5

hands  Gen. 49:24; Ex. 15:17; Isa. 5:12

finger  Ex. 8:19; 31:18; Lk. 11:20; Ps. 8:3

back  Ex. 33:23

feet  Ex. 24:10; 2Sam. 22:10; Isa. 60:13; Nah. 1:3

a general bodily form/“image”  Num. 12:8; Jas. 3:9; Rev. 4:3 Gen. 1:26-27 with 5:3

Note 1: The Bible says, in various places, that God rides, walks, sits, stands, feels, and thinks. Yes, we are made in His image!

Note #2: Wings of the Almighty are mentioned several times (Ruth 2:12; Ps. 17:8; 36:7; 57:1; 61:4; 63:7; 91:4). However, wings are mentioned figuratively throughout the Bible (e.g. as belonging to Assyria in Isa. 8:8; Moab in Jer. 48:9; the risen Christ in Mal. 4:2).

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You write on page 6: “Nothing like that had ever been said about anyone sent by God.”  Should this read “...about any human sent by God”? (I assume angels have been described as having been sent down from heaven - but I may be mistaken.)

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Thanks. I might need to take a look at that.

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Also on page 6: “A primary reason that the Son was able to reveal the Father as no one else ever could (Jn. 1:18) is that before he came to earth, he had been with the Father since before the foundation of the world.”  This seems to me to be an extremely important statement. Maybe emphasize it by bolding it?

Again, on page 6: “John the Baptist did not know the meaning of his words.”  And, “John had no knowledge of the Son of God.”  This assumes that he received no knowledge or revelation about Jesus from the Holy Spirit at any time prior to the incident.  But although the Bible does not say that he did, it also does not say that he did not. Maybe preface this with a caveat of “The bible gives us no indication that John had any previous knowledge...”?

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John could not have known the Father or the Son without God’s kind of life. Chapter 2 will explain that, when you read it.

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On page 7, you wrote, “ancient prophets were ignorant of the meaning of their own words.”  Can you expound upon how this follows from 1 Peter 1:10-12? I didn’t glean this from those verses.

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I didn’t make that clear. Of course, they did know the meaning of the individual Hebrew words that they spoke. They just didn’t know what, or who, the Spirit was talking about when it spoke those words through them.

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Again, from page 7: “All truth, Jesus said, would be revealed by the Spirit (Jn. 16:13), and the Spirit had not yet been given to men.” This verse said (NIV) the Spirit would *guide men into* all truth; but in the previous verse Jesus said “I have *yet* many things to say to you,” possibly implying that he had already revealed some truth.

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Yes, he had revealed a lot. But they had understood none of it, and without God’s life they could not understand him. Jesus told them that when they received the Spirit, it would remind them of the things he had said (Jn. 14:26).

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Also: “This means that even though the Son walked among men on earth, he remained a mystery to them all.”  Yet, Peter had knowledge.  In Mark 8:29, he said, “You are the Christ,” though his later denial of Jesus left us wondering what the depth of that knowledge must have been.

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Yes, and that is fully dealt with in Chapter 2.

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Concerning the quote from Jesus in Revelation (on page 7), that he is “the beginning of the creation of God”, various other translations also have this as:

The ruler of God’s creation

The Originator of God’s creation

The Source of The Creation of God

The Source of God’s Creation

The Beginning and Lord of God’s Creation

The Head of God’s Creation

The chief of the creation of God

I don’t know any Greek or Hebrew.  If “beginning of the creation of God” is the correct literal translation, maybe footnote that here with an explanation of why the other translations are incorrect?

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The versions that translated that Greek word as “originator” or “Source” are doing so only because of the Trinitarian faith of the translators. That includes Holman and ISV, which are, relatively speaking, good translations.

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[A Rabbit trail item from my following the “a body you have prepared for me” reference: in Heb 10 (as in many other places), the writer ascribes to Jesus a first-person quotation from Psalms (in this case, 40:6-8).  But two verses later in the same Psalm, we see “my sins have overtaken me.”  How can we reconcile applying vv. 6-8 to the Son when obviously v. 12 cannot be?]

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I see no problem with verse 12 being the words of God’s Son, after he took on sinful flesh, for as I pointed out in chapter 5, “Even the sinless Son of God, when clothed with an earthly temple, felt vile before God” (e.g., Ps. 69:5).

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Thanks again for sending these – good thought-provoking stuff here.

J––

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Thanks for the comments and questions.

jdc

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Subject: Hebrews 10:5

John,

I thought about Hebrews 10:5 “...sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared for me.”  Who prepared “a body”? If it was the Son, then wouldn’t the entire verse apply to the Son?  Whew!

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No, that is the Son speaking to the Father about what He had done.  The Son would not have been talking to Himself.

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Also, does “body” in this verse mean a body for a sacrifice (Mary’s son) or a body of believers?

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Many times, prophecies refer to more than one thing (e.g., Isa. 28:11-12). While this prophecy, quoted in Hebrews 10:5 obviously is obviously a prophecy about the human body of Jesus, we cannot completely rule out the possibility that it also refers to the NT body of believers.

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There are two things I found interesting while researching this: First, the Greek word for “prepare” (κατηρτισω) appears to mean “to repair, restore, adjust or complete something” rather than creating something new. (The Greek text uses a form of that word that I am not familiar with.) Am I understanding that word correctly?

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Greek-English lexicons cannot give us the full range of possible definitions of any word. Some definitions must be determined by context, including this one. It makes no sense, for example, for the Son, in heaven before he came to earth, to have been saying to his Father, “a body hast thou adjusted for me.” Sometimes, translators have to use their common sense in order to get it right.

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The author of Hebrews 10:5 seems to have been quoting Psalm 40:6 but there is no mention of a body being prepared unless I overlooked it.

Tom

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Often, Tom, NT writers quoted from the Septuagint, the ancient Greek Old Testament, instead of the Hebrew OT, and that is the case here.  Thanks for the questions.

jdc

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7/13/13

Whew John, I have been listening to the Father and Son music cd today, and every time I get to the song, “The Love My Father Had For You”, I melt when you sing, “The only thing that kept Jesus on the cross was love, the love he had in his heart, from the Father, for us.”  I can’t type this without tears filling up in my eyes. Whew!

I think we are really seeing how much he loves his Father, but, oh, so much how he loves us!!!

So sweet!

Lou

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8/1/13

There is so much love in reading these things.  Thank you, Pastor John for being our “who”.  Now, I’d like to go back and read it slow and take it all in.  What a book!

Billy M

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8/5/13

Good morning!

I just wanted to write to say how much I enjoyed chapter 8. Saturday night, Vince and I were not able to be with you all for the whole meeting, and my parents had sent us the dvd from Wednesday night’s meeting. So, we put that in and watched it. It was sooo good! I loved the testimonies.  Doris’ and Abby’s were very touching. Then, we followed along with the first part of chapter 8. Very good feelings! Yesterday, after the meeting, we finished the 2nd half of chapter 8. I love this chapter, and believe it is my favorite.  Well, all the chapters are my favorite when we are reading them.  :)

I love “The Order of God”, “The Government of God”, “Relationships”, “Visible Representatives”, “ A Who, Not a What” – all of the sections in this chapter. I was thinking, “Who knows this?” If all of God’s children would just look for His visible representative, and listen to hear if he is speaking as Jesus did and follow that, they would be saved from so much hurt and confusion.  I know that they must feel something is right about it when they hear truth. If they would just follow that, even if it’s against what everyone they know is saying and doing!

I love what the Lord told you, “What difference does it make what men say about anything?” Then, what is God saying? and what is He thinking? I wish everyone would ask those questions. They would get an answer if they really want to know. I love one of the lines from Darren’s new song this weekend.  It said something like, “I will fulfill my promise.  Ask, and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” (referring to the verses from Matthew 7).  And the rest of that verse says: “For every one that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it will be opened.” That is a promise from God!  And He means it!

Also, I love the Visible Representative part. I love that we are lights and visible representatives now. Jesus has given us a big part in his family, and He has made it so simple for us. It’s so sweet to know how God set up everything from the beginning, in His perfect order. He planned this! And He is going to fulfill His plan. Just to recognize and know what Jesus is doing in our lives is such a relief. To know that there is an order of God, and a visible representative here on earth, a government of God now and later that will be in effect. To know that God’s government is not an arbitrary, dictatorial government, so unlike what people see today. God’s government is not of this world, and people in the world do not really know God or His order. It makes me sad, and it makes me thankful.  I could go on and on with thoughts I had from each section. (I took lots of notes and had many smiley faces – with hair!)

I wish we knew if there were more visible representatives of Jesus out there, but I sure am thankful that I know one of them now! :) Thanks John. I do believe this chapter is one of my favorites.

Amy B

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8/17/13

Hey there!

I dreamed about the Father and Son book last night. In the dream, I was looking at the file and the first line of the paragraph I was reading said in bold:

Nobody can have communion with God alone.

:) That just goes along with everything we have learned about the Father and the Son. It’s about relationships: The Father and the Son, them with us, us with them, and us with others here on earth in the family of God – no one is left out. As you have said, there are no loners in the kingdom of God, and nobody can just have a relationship with God alone. If nothing else, the Son is going to be included.  Nobody can work out salvation just between him and God. It’s all in the family. :) That kind of thinking leaves the Son out, and that will not go over very well with his Father! I love the love of the Father and the Son and the relationship they share with us.  No one is left out in God’s family, not His Son and not His children.

I am very thankful the thoughts of the Father and the Son are my life!

Amy Boveia

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8/23/13

Pastor John to the congregation

Consider this: “By ceremonial forms, men control their god. They tell him when he will have communion with them, and how often, and whether he will use real wine or grape juice; they tell him when someone will be baptized, and when someone will be ordained, what qualifications that person must have and what doctrine he will teach; and they tell their god whom he will accept into his kingdom. Man is in command of every god worshipped with form because man is control of the form; man devises the form and then decides who will observe them, when and how. The living God is in command when His Spirit is present. He alone decides when He will have communion with a soul, and how often; He alone decides when He will baptize a soul, or when He will ordain a soul, and what doctrine that soul will preach. The living God alone decides whom He will receive into His kingdom, and whom He will cast out of it. He takes no counsel from man, or any other creature.”

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That’s one of the first things I remember loving about the truth when I heard it.  Man [the flesh] was left out of everything, and everything depended on what God did.  Goooood stuff.

Gary

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Oh, wow, this is really good. I hope you do find a place for it! Amy mentioned to me recently that Tom said something in one of our translating sessions about how the purpose for form (ceremony) is control. The way I was thinking about that was that the flesh is seduced by ceremonial form, and Satan has used that fact to influence and control men who are like him to worship the only way he knows how to worship – which is according to form and ritual. But it also applies to the “gods” of men, and to Satan’s idea of who God is. It allows them to control their “god” and fit him inside their own vain framework. I love how the truth of the matter is that men have no control over God at all – and they have no control over anyone who is living according to the life God has given them, either.

Vince

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This is so good. In the middle of the paragraph, all I could think of was “the sin of Jeroboam”. God’s people don’t even know what that was, or is. It is the same today. That’s why we have committees deciding who will preach and how much they will pay him, and detailing every minute of the one hour service.

Donna N

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9/15/13

Pastor John,

I just had to write and say how great this book is that you are writing, and what a honor it is to sit and listen/feel the stories as they unfold.  I wanted to at least, do my part and say thank you for it!

It was so very good last night reading through it, I felt so childlike at times, just taking it in!

The “Religious Pride” page just really hit home for some reason to me. It was so clear reading about how religious pride works. I felt like Brother Gary, last night in how thankful I’am, that Jesus allowed me to completely love it when I first heard it, and felt it! I’m so very thankful for my life, family, and where we are.  It’s a story about Jesus!

Thanks, for all the help you have giving us!

Bro. Paul

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9/30/13

Hey Pastor John :)

I just have to write you and let you know how thankful I am for you writing your book and teaching us about the Father and Son! I’ve really enjoyed it.  I love this truth that I know, and I love the God that I know, and the Jesus that I know.  I love learning about the love they have for each other, and for us, and I love them showing us how important relationships are.

I think my absolute favorite line, from one of my dad’s songs, is, “The moment I made him, your dreams all came true....”  Oh my!  It is very humbling to know that God loved us so much that He was willing to send His Son, whom He loved deeply, to help us and give us the only thing that would make us truly happy, and that Jesus was willing to do that for us!  If we are really after God, our dreams ARE about Jesus, our dreams are about being happy and living right and having right relationships!

It’s been a few hours now, and those feelings are still fresh, and it feels so good.  I am so thankful for you and what Jesus has shown you!  What a big thing, to know that the Father and the Son are separate beings, different persons sitting beside each other, loving each other, talking to each other, loving us together, laughing together.  I love to picture that :)

Well, I sure will be glad when you get home and we get to read more!  It is valuable to me and my life. Keep up the good work ;)

Leah

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10/8/13

Hey

This book about the Father and the Son is really good (that sounds kind of weak and pathetic :)). It is intoxicating. It is not that easy to read in that sense. I find the Spirit within me breaking into tongues very often, just as I am reading through passages. Before now, I have been in editing mode and rarely read any part of the book just to read it, and it is wonderful to do that. Even though I am familiar with it, it still moves the Spirit and fills the heart. There is glory in this book! And that is just one chapter.

Damien C

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10/14/13

Hey Brother John,

I want you to know how very much it is blessing me to read your book, God Had a Son Before Mary Did. I really believe that it is going to help me be who I truly am in Christ, rather than who I once was. Thank you so much!

Billy H.

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Amen, Billy. I I know how you feel! Let’s give glory to the Father and His Son! It’s all their fault! :)

jdc

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10/14/13

Brother John,

Someone recently said the book, “God Had a Son”, was addictive, and I agree.  I read the first two chapters straight through!

Always, when I read, I like to mark parts that really stand out.  Well, you should see my pages!  So much underlining, asterisks, smiley faces, wows, “love this”, are everywhere.  I tried to hold back writing on it so much because Sammy will be reading it, too.  No doubt he’ll know what my favorite parts are.  

On page 18, where you wrote about God’s kind of life, I wrote on my page this: Preacher Clark called it “The Blessing”.  And also on page 22, where you wrote, “Thanks be to God for His inexpressible gift!”  I again wrote in: Preacher Clark said it is, “The Blessing”. 

It brought back sweet memories of seeing Preacher Clark stand up in the meeting and talk about someone, “Receiving The Blessing”, but at that time, I had never heard that before.

Also, it is sobering to read the part where you warn about judging too harshly those who were guilty of Jesus’ death because we are reading their story now as only God knew it then, and what would we have done or thought at that time? 

All of this is such wonderful reading!  Thank you for working all these years to get this out.  It is really a blessing. 

S––

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10/15/13

Hi John,

For the last few mornings, I have been seeing some beautiful sunrises. The thing about them is that you have to be in the right place at the right time to catch the magnificent colors, and I have happened to be at the right place every morning. The thing that I love about them, John, is that it reminds me of some of the dreams that the Lord has given to me in the past. The colors are crisp and clear and clean, and it stirs up the wonderful feelings that I felt in those dreams. I know it pales to the feelings and brightness of His presence; but it brings back those wonderful feelings I felt in those dreams. Everything I see around me now screams out to me about the Father and His Son. What an honor and a blessing it is to understand what God has given to each one of us through His Son, and through each other.

What an opportunity He has given to each one of us!!! Thank you, Jesus!

Stuart

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10/19/13

Good Morning John,

I was on my way to work this morning, driving through the back roads by my house, heading to the job site. I came across a church sign that said, “Living without God is like trying to bounce a football.” As I got further down the road, the Spirit spoke to me and said, “Nobody is living without God”.

The only reason anyone is alive and here on this earth is because the Father and His Son created them. The only question is, are we His child or not? And are we following His Spirit? As I drove on, my thoughts went back to this weekend and how wonderful it felt, and how good it was to be with my family in the Lord.

I thought about what you were preaching about how much we lose when we try to add something to what God has done for us through His Spirit. Most of God’s children don’t know that that is what they are doing when they join a church or add ceremonies to the worship of God in the Spirit.

Tears filled my eyes as I thought about how much some of our brothers and sisters have given away, and what we have lost, by them being a part of Christianity, and how thankful I felt to be able to understand and be taught about our Father and His Son by following His Spirit and hearing His voice.

At that point, as the tears flowed, I felt so thankful! How much of a privilege it is to be a part of what God is giving to us through you, John. It is a rare thing on this earth, what God has given to our little group, and all we want is for all of God’s children everywhere to have it, and to be made one in the Spirit. I feel more thankful every day for what He has done for us.

Thank you, John.

Stuart

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10/24/13

Good morning John,

Last night, I was reading the Father and Son book and it referred to Psalm 110, which I read this morning. The first verse says “the Lord said unto my lord, sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”

That word “footstool” stood out to me, and I looked up the many references regarding it.

In the Old Testament it was to be a place of worship:

Psalm 99:5 KJV

[5] “Exalt ye the Lord our God, and worship at his footstool; for he is holy.”

Psalm 132:7 KJV

[7] “We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool.”

It was also the earth:

Isaiah 66:1 KJV

[1] “Thus saith the Lord , The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?”

Matthew 5:35 KJV

[35] “Nor swear by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.”

It was the building that David had in his heart to build for the ark of the covenant:

1Chronicles 28:2 KJV

[2] “Then David the king stood up upon his feet, and said, Hear me, my brethren, and my people: As for me, I had in mine heart to build an house of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and for the footstool of our God, and had made ready for the building:”

It was a “golden” place of honor, for the feet of the king at Solomon’s throne:

2Chronicles 9:18 KJV

[18] “And there were six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, which were fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays:”

Which brings us back again to what Paul said:

Hebrews 10:12 KJV

[12] “But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.”

The Father and Son book really sets the heart free to consider things, John, and there is something very special about it. I have sat down twice to read it now, and both times it has left me feeling very blessed, with a desire to know more of this Jesus, whom nobody knew until His Father revealed Him.

Gary

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10/30/13

Hey John,

The new version of the book about the Father and Son is like it is all New, even though we have read it several times before.  The end of chapter 4 is so good!!!  The Son of God is the reason for EVERY element of the Old Testament.  Been reading Genesis, and this book with it.  This book makes Genesis ALIVE!!!  My, my!

Jr. E

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12/6/13

Hey Brother John,

Just finished reading the Father and Son book (“God Had a Son Before Mary Did”).  I feel so blessed just for having the privilege of reading it.  As I sit here, remembering it, all I can do or think is just, Wow!  Wow!  Wow!

Billy H.

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12/18/13

John,

I was reading through and editing the Father and Son emails that I have gathered for the past six years. They are so wonderful! I was just floating yesterday. I have thoroughly enjoyed them. What really impressed me was how much everyone was touched/changed by what God has shown you. Everyone from the young to the elderly – people who do not normally write emails but just had to say something about how this book has changed their life or cleared their understanding. It was very touching. And, how much of a “group effort” this has been. At times, there will be an email from you to us, asking us to pray for you because it was a spiritual struggle to write these things, and then an email of your thankfulness toward us all for having interest and zeal for the things of God.

Now that we are at the point of printing the book (which we did not actually do until 2026!) and trying to decide the best way to get it out to God’s people, there is still a spiritual struggle to get this to them. After we talked briefly yesterday about how to do this and what it involves and marketing etc., it made me pray for help to do this in a way that is pleasing to God. It WILL save God’s people if they can take it in. I say that to forward you this that I found in reading the emails yesterday. It really stood out to me. The Lord spoke to Sandy in a dream, and these were the words he said. (Her email is dated February 20, 2011):

“This is not going to be for everybody. You are not going to save the world. This is going to require getting into your prayer closets.”

Then Sandy said, “Bro. John, we sure need God. For Him to send a dream with instructions, He knows this book and its message is very special for the hearts of His people.”

I marked it to pass along. It really puts a prayer in your heart, not only for God’s people, but for us to be ready when our brothers and sisters do read it. There will be blessings and persecutions to come.

Thanks again for everything. The Father and Son book was life-changing for me, too. I have loved the journey, and I am so thankful to be a part of helping you get this message to all of God’s people everywhere. I had a dream a few months ago, and the Spirit said, “Breathe October”. I had no idea that you would be here in Nebraska in October with Vince and me, and we would read the Father and Son book with you all the way through and finish it! When I looked up the word “breathe”, one of the definitions was “to be or to seem alive because of this”. I believe that we are! :)

Amy Boveia